Can you create an infinite spellchain using 2 Reverberates?
Asked by Zeebadeeb 13 years ago
Example scenario: Cast an instant/sorcery, in response, before it resolves, cast a Reverberate , and again, in response, another reverb, targeting the first reverb. Then choose the target of the reverb copy made with the second reverb to be the second reverb, then use that copy to target any of the reverbs present, and so on and so forth to create and infinite loop of spells (although they would have no real effect). Questions within questions: A: Creating a copy of a reverb with a reverb, can you target the copied reverb, because the copy is a separate spell? B: When does a Reverberate resolve; when the spell to be copied is targeted, or when the target for the copy of the copied spell is chosen?
The way Reverberate works, it chooses what it is as you cast it, not at resolution. Therefore say a player cast Lightning Bolt , it is copied with Reverberate , and that Reverberate is copied also. As the first one is cast, you choose for it to be a Lightning Bolt and it losses all memory of its previous state. So when the second one is cast you choose for it to be the copied Lightning Bolt . This second Reverberate is now a Lightning Bolt , then the spells on the stack resolve in reverse order as usual. These types of effects are called state based effects. So no, there would only be alot of copied spells everywhere, no infinite loops.
February 6, 2012 2:39 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #3
You cast a spell. For the sake of example, let's say it's Shock .
You then cast Reverberate #1, targeting Shock.
You then cast Reverberate #2, targeting R1.
R2 resolves, creating a copy of R1. The copy of R1 is put onto the stack targeting an instant or sorcery. Let's assume the copy of R1 targets the original R1.
If you continue in this way, you can create an arbitrary number of copies of Reverberate, although the net result will essentially be the same as if you had only cast the initial Reverberate.
When you cast a spell or activate an ability, targets for that object are chosen as part of the casting process (this is done after the object is placed/created on the stack and before its costs are paid).
Note that if you were hoping to use this chain to boost Storm abilities (such as that of Grapeshot ), you're out of luck because the copies are not cast, they are simply created on the stack.
Additionally, this is not an "infinite loop," per se. There is a point at which you may break the chain and discontinue the copying of Reverberate, so the loop, while it can be recursive, cannot be infinite.
February 6, 2012 2:43 p.m.
What about a flashbacked Increasing Vengeance? Since it copies a spell twice, could it copy a Reverberate twice in order to copy two different spells?
February 7, 2012 2:45 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #5
Yes. Increasing Vengeance copies the target spell twice if it was flashed back, and you may choose new targets for each of the copies. Therefore, you can copy Reverberate twice, and each copy of Reverberate will copy another spell when it resolves. The Reverberated spells may be the same or completely different.
February 7, 2012 9:43 a.m.
Does that make it possible to use this trick along with Nivmagus Elemental to make an infinitely powerful creature by exiling all of the copies?
October 9, 2012 11:21 a.m.
Nm I just didn't think through the full explanation. There would only ever be three things on the stack at any given time. Because R2 would have to resolve to copy R1. Just wasn't thinking clearly I guess.
r378u11 says... #1
As best I could tell it would be a grey area, but I would think it wouldn't work.
For the simple fact that if you're casting the second Reverberate
on to the first Reverberate
you can't have the first one resolve and copy the second one because the second one did not exist when the first one was initially cast.
At least that is my take on the matter, and is based entirely on when the spell resolves.
February 6, 2012 2:26 p.m.