Punctuation and the Stack?
General forum
Posted on July 10, 2013, 5:55 a.m. by bbk17
Okay, so here is what I need figured out. My friends are saying one thing and I say another and I really don't think what they say is true so now I need confirmation.
My friends say that If i play Life's Finale, killing a Solemn Simulacrum, they get to draw before I search their library for creatures because there is a period on the spell. I say Life's Finale must completely resolve before Solemn Simulacrums ability triggers. Who is correct? That is an example of what the issue is. what they are saying is "Part of the spell resolves, then because of punctuation on the card other abilities can happen before the spell completely resolves, THEN the rest of the spell finishes." If a spell or ability is not countered, doesn't it finish resolving before other things go on the stack?
Life's Finale resolves completely first, then the Simulacrum's ability resolves.
July 10, 2013 6:10 a.m.
The only way an ability on the Stack would be altered or interrupted by something else would be by replacement effects.
If Solemn Simulacrum 's second ability said "If Solemn Simulacrum would die, draw a card instead, then put Solemn Simulacrum into your graveyard.", then your friends would be correct, as drawing the card would become a part of the resolution of Life's Finale .
But with triggered abilities (using "When", "Whenever", or "At"), they, as Epoch said, will not go on the Stack until after the resolution of the currently resolving spell or ability has finished resolving.
July 10, 2013 7:50 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #5
Punctuation and line breaks don't have any special rules meaning. They're just used as part of the normal conventions of English grammar and Magic rules text templating. As others have explained: though an ability can trigger in the middle of a spell/ability resolving, that triggered ability can't be put onto the stack until the spell/ability is completely finished resolving.
July 10, 2013 11:55 a.m.
Thank you to everyone for clearing this up for me, I'm glad I can finally put this issue to rest with my friends
July 10, 2013 3:08 p.m.
just curious has punctuation ever meant anything in regards to the stack? my friends say thats how it used to be and im just curious if the rules were ever like that
July 10, 2013 7:52 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
I'm pretty sure it hasn't.
Imagine how nightmarish it would be to have multiple objects on the stack resolving inside one another. It gets even worse if any are abilities, which don't even have the luxury of being represented by cards.
July 10, 2013 7:58 p.m.
What they may be thinking of is the way that spells that have only one target, but multiple effects will be countered on resolution if the target is illegal, but spells with multiple targets where less than all of them become illegal will still try to do as much as it can?
So a spell like Remand , if the target is illegal upon resolution, won't let you draw a card, but a spell like Decimate if only one target is illegal upon resolution will keep going and do as much as possible.
I could see how people might get tied up in thinking that punctuation is the reason why those spells behave differently.
July 10, 2013 8:11 p.m.
Epochalyptik Is there somewhere in the rulebook where I can find where it talks about spells resolving completely before other spells can resolve?
August 1, 2013 7:31 p.m.
Epochalyptik or does rune 608.2F cover it?Copy and pasted from the Comprehensive Rule Book from the official Magic the Gathering Website:
608.2f If an effect gives a player the option to pay mana, he or she may activate mana abilities before taking that action. If an effect specifically instructs or allows a player to cast a spell during resolution, he or she does so by putting that spell on top of the stack, then continuing to cast it by following the steps in rules 601.2a-h, except no player receives priority after it's cast. The currently resolving spell or ability then continues to resolve, which may include casting other spells this way. No other spells can normally be cast and no other abilities can normally be activated during resolution.
August 1, 2013 7:43 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #13
I don't know where to find it in the CR, but it's a fact that nothing ever interrupts the resolution of a spell or ability. Once a spell or ability begins to resolve, it resolves completely before players regain priority. During the resolution, no players have priority and therefore no players can take any actions that the resolving spell or ability doesn't explicitly instruct or allow them to take.
August 1, 2013 8:27 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #14
It's the conclusion you draw from the multiple rules explaining how to process spells and abilities. A player can only cast spells and activate abilities when he has priority. Triggered abilities are added to the stack the next time a player gets priority. State Based Actions are checked and executed right before a player would get priority. Once an object on the stack starts to resolve, the next time a player gets priority is after it's finished resolving.
No one has priority during the resolution of a spell or ability, so nothing that requires priority can happen during that time.
Epochalyptik says... #2
Once an object on the stack begins to resolve, it resolves completely. If an ability triggers in the middle of a resolution, the ability waits until the resolution is completed. Then, the ability is put onto the stack.
In this case, Solemn Simulacrum 's ability triggers partway through Life's Finale 's resolution, but the ability won't be put onto the stack until afterward.
tl;dr: They're completely wrong about punctuation.
Also, questions like this are best asked in the Q&A.
July 10, 2013 6:03 a.m.