Infinite copy-redirect on the pile...
Asked by le-stan 2 years ago
Hi,
I wonder what happens in this case: My opponent plays Alrund's Epiphany, then plays Narset's Reversal in an attempt to copy the epiphany, get 2 extra turns and return the epiphany to his hand.
I have Imp's Mischief in hand and the mana to play it.
Since Alrund's Epiphany doesn't target a player, I can't change that, He will get his extra turn, no questions asked.
But I can change the target of Narset's Reversal.
However, the way I see it (and I'm maybe wrong...) is that if I copy Narset's Reversal, since I don't want it to copy Alrund's Epiphany, the only other spell I can copy is imp's mischief.
Then we are in an infinite loop of copying/redirecting/copying/redirecting... etc
--> What happens then ? Is it possible to achieve the result I want, which is : - No copy of Alrund's Epiphany for my opponent - Imp's Mischief back in my hand
Let's not forget the part of Imp's misschief that says "you lose life equals to this spell's mana cost". Meaning that if this loop is indeed infinite, I lose the game...
Thanks in advance for your help,
Stan
Disregard the last bit, I was thinking the birds were a foretell bonus and hadn't looked at the card to make sure.
March 15, 2022 8:45 a.m.
Hi,
Thanks for this, I think we totally misunderstood Narset's Reversal. If I understand your answer correctly, it means that - without any Imp's Mischief involved - Narset's reversal actually copies Alrund's Epiphany but "counters" the original spell and sends it back to owner's hand... is that correct?
So...
-
Alrund's epiphany on the stack
-
Narset's reversal on the stack targeting Alrund's epiphany
-
Imp's mischief on the stack targeting Narset's reversal
Then:
- Resoving Imp's misschief, target of Narset's reversal is redirected to imp's misschief
- Resolving Narset's reversal - No valid target --> countered
- Resolving Alrund's epiphany : opponent gets an extra-turn and Alrund's epiphany goes to the graveyard.
All good?
March 15, 2022 9:07 a.m.
Yes, you have that right. Narset's Reversal is generally intended to be used on an opponent's spell (they cast Ruinous Ultimatum, you send it back at them—thus the "reversal"), though it could be used on your own in a pinch where you really need to be able to use another spell in your hand more than once.
There are plenty of cards that do what your friend wants here, though. Twincast and Reverberate (and a bunch of similar cards) will both give two extra turns. You would use Imp's Mischief the same way to stop them. Teach by Example would also work, and because of how the effect is different it doesn't actually target. Note though that you need to have Teach by Example resolve and leave the stack BEFORE casting the spell you want to copy.
March 15, 2022 10:19 a.m.
Thanks for your help !
Since he stole me at least 2 games with this, I can now accuse him of Blatant Thievery!!!
Just kidding, it's all for the fun and we both misunderstood the card, so no foul play ;)
++
March 15, 2022 2:07 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #6
le-stan: Since it's clear you got a satisfactory answer to your question and there don't seem to be any further follow-ups or corrections to be made, I marked one of the responses as the "Accepted answer" so this topic can move out of the list of unanswered questions. In the future you can take care of this yourself using the "Mark as Answer" button on the response that you feel best answers your question.
March 22, 2022 4:47 p.m.
Hi,
Sorry I didn't see this notfication earlier, I'll do so in the future.
Stan
Polaris says... Accepted answer #1
You can change the target to Imp's Mischief, and this will not result on an infinite loop.
The reason is that to resolve, a targeted spell has to have a legal target. If you try to cast a spell without being able to select its targets, you can't. If a spell with no legal targets left tries to resolve, it gets countered by game rules. While Imp's Mischief is on the stack, it's a valid target for Narset's Reversal, so you can make it the target during Mischief's resolution, but immediately after that happens (and you lose 2 life) Imp's Mischief finishes resolving and goes to the graveyard. Next is Narset's Reversal, which no longer has a legal target, so it fizzles and goes to the graveyard without doing anything.
This is also the correct way to use a redirect spell on a counterspell.
As a side note, using Narset's Reversal on an extra turn card doesn't give two extra turns. Your opponent will only resolve the copy, since Reversal sends the original to their hand, removing it from the stack. Notably, the copy was not foretold (even if the original was) so they won't get their Birds from it.
March 15, 2022 8:44 a.m.