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This is by far the most rock solid zombie build I have ever seen. I cannot even feel the need to ask why none of the U or U/X cards are here because I can tell they honestly would just slow this down.
Have a 50th upvote on me. You've earned it.
Oh, but keep an eye out for the Amonkhet cards coming out, cause anywhere that has Egyptian mummies is bound to have zombie support.
March 28, 2017 1:35 a.m.
Oh, lol well that does work well too as far as full rotation. I think I see the confusion was that I wasn't considering that Innistrad was rotating out at the same time as Zendikar, I thought is was one block at a time now.
I can tell you that if you want to have a similar "blowout" creature build like with Ormendahl, then currently I'm seeing Aetherwind Basker as the biggest if not the best one.
March 26, 2017 9:07 a.m.
If it helps, I see your weakest cards/easiest cuts lie in Lurking Predators, Tempt with Glory, Words of Wisdom, Plea for Power, and maybe Rite of the Raging Storm. Any others seem to fit well enough for a generic group hug that they are not easily replaced without leaning into a certain playstyle or else beget wanting a personal win condition.
March 26, 2017 12:23 a.m.
Okay, so I do realize you ask for possible cuts, but I've honestly got too many things to list option-wise to say where a cut could/should be made. Some examples of options you may have missed:
Weird Harvest, Mana Flare, Dictate of Karametra, Howling Mine, Heartwood Storyteller, Shizuko, Caller of Autumn, Skullwinder, Horn of Greed, Helm of Awakening, Spectral Searchlight, Primal Vigor, Seed the Land, Bubble Matrix, Flux, Beacon of Immortality, Dawnbreak Reclaimer, Liege of the Hollows, Ghosts of the Innocent, Pulsemage Advocate, Orzhov Advokist, Wishmonger, Tangleroot. Storm Cauldron, Grove of the Burnwillows, Mikokoro, Center of the Sea, Geier Reach Sanitarium, Arbiter of Knollridge, Dakra Mystic, Concordant Crossroads, and
(my last two to mention that I cannot believe YOU don't even mention them how could you possibly have missed these and I'm metaphorically running out of air here)
whew. Okay, firstly I do not do "tldr" summaries, so I'm afraid you'll have to sift through the above the slow way (which that isn' even an exhaustive list btw).
Secondly, to help you sift through the above I would ask is there a specific manner in which you are wanting to help people? Do you like seeing certain gameplans win or hate others? By example is that I can see some cards like Hive Mind being too helpful possibly towards "storm" decks, but if you're playing a catch-all type of group hug then that's no big deal.
Another idea is are you into fringe group hug effects? By which I mean playing Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth just to help everyone mana fix that uses black. Or even playing Ink-Treader Nephilim in tandem with say Tempt with Reflections to give everybody an extra copy of literally every creature on their board and them some. Heck, if you ran Rite of Replication you could let everyone have EVERY creature on the board. The nephilim isn't directly a group hug card here but it has the potential to hug. Kinda like Guided Passage no?
Just some food for thought. ;D
March 26, 2017 12:09 a.m.
@PlagueRats: Honestly, yes, I am serious, as even though the deck as a whole will rotate out it is obvious most of your cards will stay in rotation for a while. No, it will no stay permanently, but no deck in standard can do so and say it always uses the exact same type of cards.
The fact that your particular brew is a budget build feels more like an accomplishment than a self set restriction, so don't knock it for that. And, even if I tried to take the brew in a new direction for the next set myself, I personally feel like your version here is the most thought out "Ormendahl" deck that I've seen, so I'd want to get your opinions on any potential changes. Such as the replacement of cards that will be rotating out the soonest.
Now if you don't really feel like planning that part of the deck out that's fine by me. I basically just wondered if you were curious about how the deck would move forward like I was.
March 25, 2017 10:30 p.m.
@Gleeock Jace does in a manner of speaking fill the role of "spell slinger" mage, at least depending on what version of him you're looking at. Though I would love to see one that is maybe actually focused on spell use rather than basic information gathering that most versions of Jace do.
That ability you mentioned actually seems a little redundant for an instant/sorcery deck to bother with, as most of those decks already run several powerful draw spells/draw engines. Even still, what would you think to balance it with? Would that walker use that for a plus ability and if so what about the minus or ult?
March 23, 2017 5:34 p.m.
Okay, so how might you alter this list in regards to when the Zendikar block rotates out? Would you say you'd have to splash another color?
March 23, 2017 5:28 p.m.
@Dhominus I was actually thinking more on the lines of "what could a mono blue walker do if it wasn't Jace" kinda of thing.
As in how the first iteration of Tamiyo, Tamiyo, the Moon Sage, was built around lunar magic that was more telekinetic than telepathic. Restricting movement and action, but not their thoughts.
Tezzeret the Seeker to me also fell into a new archetype for mono blue which was less about being a master wizard as a master of engineering and machines. Manipulating metal and forming it into whatever shape the user needs similar to how a green or red mage might do with natural earth.
What I'm proposing as a discussion then is what other categories could a new walker fill that is mono blue? Simic colors take blue's need to explore ideas and marries it to green's need to constantly grow and expand, so Kiora is fine being U/G.
Saheeli maybe could be a mono blue walker, but being red helps partly to distinguish her from Tezzeret, and also to support her own aggressive nature that would be uncommon for mono blue magic user (she does like to duel with giant robots if you'll remember).
Honestly this is all getting off track, but my point is that I figure wizards is afraid of emptying whatever may be left of their well of ideas in regards to blue magic. Shapeshifter magic for instance is an area that no planeswalker to my knowledge has utilized, thus you could make an arguement for a new mono blue walker that can shapeshift into any creature as an ability, or alter another creature instead. Like having a Changeling walker basically.
So, anyone else know how we could replace Jace? Or else maybe help flesh out this would-be replacement? I'd especially like to here what berryjon thinks of this.
March 23, 2017 3:47 p.m.
Okay, the first thing you need is to actually put up your sideboard (I think you may have listed the cards in the wrong section when editing the deck).
Secondly is you obviously need to put in more win cons than a single Celestial Colonnade and/or be reliant on the tokens of one planeswalker.
Since you seem to want more spells to be reactive to the opponent, just 2 or even 3 creatures should be enough to work with, but you've got to run something in the mainboard to actually beat down people in a few turns. I mean, you've got access to green so white not run Primeval Titan? or any of the titans for that matter?
March 23, 2017 12:55 p.m.
Okay, so my first thought here would be speculating on what kind of mono blue walker could you make right now that isn't a redone version of some walker already existing.
For example you've already got "classic wizard" kinda taken up by Jace if not Tamiyo, and then Tezzeret does fill the role of the master artificer, but what else is left then that can explicitly be a blue archetype and not U/X?
March 23, 2017 12:45 p.m.
If you want to "win with walkers" in a turbo fog then you sound like you're basically going to be running a control build that wins with a few good creatures.
Like Sphere of Safety and similar cards are going to be your best options for stopping attackers, and then also you'd want something to give you hexproof like Leyline of Sanctity. In between all that though you'll need the walker support, which is best had through the oaths like a turn one Oath of Nissa and a turn 2 Oath of Ajani. Also pretty much all the most recent versions of Ajani are amazing for a walker deck, even the starter one.
March 22, 2017 1:56 p.m.
I would first ask how well this variant has worked out in your local meta, but I'd also wonder why you have the lists so uneven. I get that you can't list every single one possible for the mono colored ones, but knowing that why not just show some key example commanders to build around for Centurion EDH?
Like you could list just 6 or 7 for color basis, but then add tags for stuff like "mill commanders" or "control/voltron" or whatever seems most fitting. I know a really good one for that burn tag should be Obsidian Fireheart.
March 19, 2017 1:18 p.m.
And the quest for an additional upvote begins! XD
March 19, 2017 1:47 a.m.
Okay, I was probably more hopeful than I should have been when I saw the title, compared to what I'm seeing right now, but you've got an okay start.
Firstly, considering your 3 different instant speed removals, Incendiary Flow is not needed mainboard, and should be a sideboard option against graveyard decks. Other easy includes for the sideboard should be some of the more aggro creatures you currently have in the mainboard; which maybe should be removed for more actual vehicles like Ovalchase Dragster or Fleetwheel Cruiser and the like. With the Chandra main board, and all that removal, you're sure to last long enough to beat down your opposition through big and small creatures.
Second is I feel you shouldn't run Pia Nalaar. At the three drop slot you'll most likely want to either leave mana open for removal spells, or be playing your vehicles/direct vehicle support. Siege Modification being a spell I highly recommend if you use the dragster.
March 18, 2017 1:48 a.m.
For one you can have a "mana rock" deck through animation effects like the original Karn, Silver Golem , or Sydri, Galvanic Genius, or even mass animation like March of the Machines. For two though I find it interesting how most lower mana rocks have started to become balanced through more than just ETB tapped effects; like how Corrupted Grafstone also requires you to have a spell of some color in the grave.
Grafstone was also indicative of a shift away from the magic of the Eldrazi in that colorless/devoid cards couldn't use that type of pseudo-death based magic that is common to all of Innistrad. That kind of built in thematic mechanics has always been the best part of MTG to me.
March 17, 2017 2:35 p.m.
Actually, I just figured it that Rampant Growth shouldn't be compared to Evolving Wilds because the truth is that growth is more like having a mana dork; they get you a mana that you didn't already have.
Wilds on the other hand exchanges itself for a type of mana that you didn't already have; it doesn't actually net you more mana in the long run.
March 14, 2017 12:11 p.m.
Yeah, speaking as a commander player, the use of an Evolving Wilds or Rampant Growth effect is more commonly used to fix your mana base with the right colors than it is to actually ramp up in mana. That is arguably done better through creatures, but doing so does of course leave you open to removal and board wipes.
Not doing so however can also leave you open to attackers. And essentially by choosing one, the other, or both, in terms of creature ramp vs lands, the idea is that what you're using that mana on determines which is best. A lot of players in commander for instance will laugh at the idea of using Boundless Realms even if it would literally cut your deck in half in regards to thinning it out, because it doesn't get you any creatures that are able to be used to immediate effect. If you'll ever notice there are far more "give haste" effects in magic than there are "untap all lands". Though those are out there.
In the case of your 60 card build you will want a creature presence on the board more often than not, although some effects can't be found on creatures, so running Rampant Growth or Gatecreeper Vine won't be quite so good as say running Sylvan Scrying which can get you a specific land with a utility effect. Also, you'd have to facing a very competitive and watchful player for them to memorize which card in your hand is a land or how many cards of your hand they've seen without having played a Thoughtseize, so having that extra card can sorta throw them off mentally. Though probably only as much as using Evolving Wilds will thin the deck. :P
March 14, 2017 12:07 p.m.
So hey, what about running Virulent Plague for a matchup that is a big tokens build? I realize that it isn't great compared to the Illness in the Ranks, be able to allow for better synergy with giving away bigger tokens maybe?
March 14, 2017 12:06 p.m.
Okay, so actually Baleful Strix is a perfect example card for what I'm talking about with "ideal cards" for certain roles. The role in question being a "chump blocker".
If you think about making up a card that is the perfect blocker then certain keywords and abilities come to mind, but you'll run into gaps in the design depending on the rest of your deck. For instance, not every card built to be a blocker replaces itself as much as be resilient and not need to be replaced. Not every blocker will survive combat, however, one might argue that not every blocker needs to survive combat just stop damage.
Baleful Strix fills the former role. If a player finds the need for creature card that is specifically meant to stop or discourage attacks, but still be a potential aggressor, then the bird is the word so to speak. The strix has some of the best combination of abilities for such a blocker. Having a low cost ensures this can indeed be a deterrent to early attacks but can confidently attack itself early on too. Having flying over reach may leave you open to the odd "hate flying" specific cards, but for a card meant to also attack flying is better. Lastly, the addition of drawing a card from entering the battlefield also fulfills the basic need of any deck to want a "cantrip" type card. Whatever the strix does,or has done to it, it cannot be entirely wasted because it gave you another card to replace itself.
Now maybe you're actually wanting the latter ideal for a blocker. You may be looking for a card that is not an artifact and therefore vulnerable to anti-artifact spells. This unknown perfect blocker may instead need to survive anything it blocks rather than ensure the death of the attacker, which most of the time this is a player preference, but perhaps a pillow-fort build specifically may want to avoid trample damage and needs a creature with massive toughness. This same type of creature should be able to block any type of assault, including spells thrown at it. And of course it should draw a card, but a consensus has to be made somewhere right? Which given the casting cost of Wall of Denial, I think not drawing you an extra card right when it is cast or enters if fairly alright, as it should be able to prolong the game enough that you don't need a card right then and there.
March 12, 2017 11:15 a.m.
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