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First of all I ofcourse don't know what your budget is. These cards I mentioned are in the higher price range, but unfortunately not on any reserved list and very easy to trade :) But fair enough if you don't want to spend that amount of cash on them!

To respond to your responses :)

The nim deathmantle I think is an auto include in any teysa deck, we play orzhov and we run out of a hand eventually. To use your turns to start looping stuff on the battlefield is pretty good. Nim is a real enabler in that way also an engine for your drain effects.

It felt exactly like that with the wurmcoil and the walker ;) The slumlord is really good, he often provides quite a lot of tokens and that's what teysa wants :) What's your plan with the Sandsower ? Cause if you only run it to untap Whisper, Blood Liturgist then I would just run another recursion effect instead of such a niche card... What about Dread Return , Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord , Chainer, Dementia Master are all very affordable recursion effects :-)

Vindictive Vampire I would just run in addition too, tbh. IF you really want to go towards the Aristocrats style! Lily I can totally understand. The standard meta still hasn't settled and therefor it's still uncertain if she will see play or not. I think as soon as that happens we'll know if she goes up or down. Nontheless it is a reaaaally powerfull card. Sorin is criminally underrated and in a aristocrats deck an absolute powerhouse and much better than the token generator sorin... Almost all your creatures are cmc 3 or less, wich means Sorin will fetch them out of your graveyard the turn he enters + the lifelink is a really nice addition as well. Gives you space to run for example Command the Dreadhorde or Bolas's Citadel . The ping effect I often use to ping a planeswalker, next to this it's on +2 so he grows big fast. I rarely draw him and go well this is completely useless right now...

Since Orzhov lack proper card draw like blue has, I would run Yawgmoth and lily tbh. They are both that good, but being on a budget Yawgmoth will probably do more for us.

Let me know how the Aetherworks Marvel works out for you! I have it in my binder as well and im curious about it!

DH i would keep out of your deck unless you play at a 75%+ powerlevel table. Otherwise it will ruin the more casual pods and it won't be fun for anyone. But that's the nice thing, see it more as a kill switch you can dump in your deck increasing the powerlevel of you deck quite a lot.

My bad about the draw then, it was late and I was about to get to bed, think I just overlooked them :-) Midnight Reaper I still need to get as well, I have one and it's in my Meren deck.... I have 2 bolas's Citadel's in my binder, but no idea what to cut for it in my list (you can always take a quick peek if you want to see if you have some ideas?)

I think what is almost more important than sac outlets are the recursion effects. It really is the engine of the deck. I play around 8-9 effects and a ton of card draw to get too them. Again Orzhov is not the fastest color when it comes to ramp, so we go midgame fast, and there we see out other problem. Going into the midcame empty handed is killing or not having a recursion effect on the field is also terrible to bring back out dead... As long as we can Recur our creatures we are good to go. That's why I'm no fan of Whisper/Ravos, they are creatures. People like to play boardwipes/spotremoval so often they won't survive. Putting your recursion on any other slot is better than a creature. If you are low on sac fodder than whisper is a horrible recursion effect because you need 2(!!) creatures to recur one thin. In my opinion Chainer/Victimize/Dread Return are all better because if they can drag your Sun Titan out of your grave the moment it resolves you have gass again :) Whisper and Ravos both need to wait an entire round wich is quite long to stay alive!

June 14, 2019 9:31 a.m.

Said on Killing with Karlov...


I'm back cause I saw your update hahah ;-)

I see you are trying to force more lifegain triggers, I would play any other card with extort wich is not the Pontiff.... The pontiff is way to costly to put down and you basically play him for his extort trigger, the fact that he gives it to everything seems really good but often you don't have the mana to pay up...

If you look for more lifegain triggers and about the same CMC go for Patron of the Kitsune it's a 5/6 flyer (thats already better than the pontiff + it triggers on EACH attack trigger, wich will probably trigger more than the Sunscorch Regent :-)

Slap in a Eight-and-a-Half-Tails and you can cast him on instant speed if needed + the Eight Tales is completely underrate, protecting ALL your permanents for only 3 mana and the ability to make Karlov unblockable...

And now that we are on the subject of unblockable/protection, Mother of Runes and the new Giver of Runes are an absolute auto include in your deck. Eight-tales and Mother did soooo much work and basically protected karlov on instant speed from spot removal and on the offense make him unblockable if they play the right color combo. Now that you als get the Giver of Runes it's even better. Trust me on this one, it will make your life so much easier! Nothing sucks more than when your fat Karlov get's nuked down, and turn 1 mother of runes, turn 2 karlov is most of the time GG for at least 1 player at the table.

Another absolute powerhouse in my deck was Ajani, Caller of the Pride at only 3 mana he often hit my board around turn 3/4 where Karlov was already 6/6, it's really not that hard if you have a turn one Soul Warden and then suddenly Karlov is a 6/6 flying doublestrike in turn 3, needless to say you often removed 1 opponent around turn 4-5 :)

As usual really hope this tips will help you a bit more!

June 14, 2019 8:21 a.m.

Quick tip: I would replace for example Ravos, Soultender and Whisper, Blood Liturgist for Oversold Cemetery and Nim Deathmantle

Also Wurmcoil Engine feels a bit off theme, he is just there because he is value, but in no way has any synergy with Teysa, Orzhov Scion , he is probably what remains of your old deck ;-)

Also I run more Blood Artist effects, so Vindictive Vampire and Pious Evangel  Flip. These effects are basically your wincon if you don't go onto the Darkest Hour tour. It makes people think again about playing a board wipe and gives more value to your boardwipes when you play them if needed.

From war of the spark we also have Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord and Liliana, Dreadhorde General wich have amazing synergy with what the decks wants to do and that is being an aristocrats deck.

And ofcourse from modern horizons the new Yawgmoth, Thran Physician sack outlet and card draw and removal, it's basically everything orzhov wants...

At one point I cut Divine Visitation as well, since I found it too mana intensive and often to reliant on having a boardstate. Wich often can be a bit of a problem, since Teysa draws sooooo much hate. (wich is understandable) I replaced it for more recursion.

I do like your addition of Living Death and I'm gonna give it a go with that card as well. Since we mostly exile threats, I don't think whatever comes back is that much of a problem for us :)

And about darkest hour. It's up to you if you want to play it, it takes the deck from a nice deck to play against to full on combo. I kinda like that, I have the card and depending what powerlevel I'm up against I put it in or not. It's like a switch you can turn on and off. ".Darkest Hour I feel will need to be slotted in eventually for combo potential, but I gotta have something to combo it with, whether its Altar of Dementia or a Blood Artist like effect." - You already play it hahah. You just need teysa and a sac outlet and your done. One of the altars means infinite mana, Dementia is everyone is milled, one of the blood artists and everyone is dead, Gravepact/dictate the board is empty, Carrion Feeder is infinite big, Viscera Seer you scry for your wincon. And even without Darkest Hour that is why you want to run more of these blood artist effects and recursion to keep your guys on the board.

Also....where is your card draw? It feels like your gonna fall into the orzhov trap wich is being without a hand and without enough recursion you will slow down quite fast and the other decks will get the upper hand. 1 Midnight Reaper and 1 Grim Haruspex are not enough to stay dangerous..

Hope these tips will help you a bit

And otherwise if you want this is my decklist with what I play: Teysa, Orzhov Scion: a Dance Macabre

June 13, 2019 6:39 p.m.

Hey QuietMyth

Thanks for the quick response, it really helps with you explaining the choices so I can understand why you made them and will help piloting the deck and making my own choices allong the way. But since you already play it for so long I like to rely a bit on your experience :-)

I kinda overlooked the Soul of New Phyrexia , fills exactly the same role but does more! You really think Darksteel Forge aged badly? It seems like such a powerful card and as I experienced yesterday 9 mana is really not that much.... My playgroup loves to run boardwipes thats why I'm thinking of running it..

I ran Sorcerous Spyglass for quite some time in my Archidekt: Queen Marchesa Deck but I always found it a bit underwhelming and too niche to run it. So I took it out.

So we put The Immortal sun in the not great enough corner, to be fair if I had to choose between immortal sun and Paradox Engine I think the engine would win.

Well the fact that your decission of not running it comes down to the fact of not owning it is enough reason for me to order it hahah. I like your idea about torpor orb as well, shuts down a lot of stuff so I put it on my list as well. Any idea what you would cut for those 2 cards?

Thanks again for the response, I really think brainstorming about cards and decks is one of the fun parts about magic, so I hope this doesnt ask too much of your time and energy :)

June 13, 2019 1:07 p.m.

And why aren't you playing cards like The Immortal Sun and Paradox Engine they seem like such a nice addition?

June 13, 2019 8:07 a.m.

QuietMyth well did my first game yesterday and man this deck is oppressive hahaha. Actually had scroll rack out from turn 2 and it almost won me the game (although it was out in combination with Staff of Nin).

I did made one tiny change, since i'm still waiting for that card. I took Kyren Toy out and replaced it with Sculpting Steel . I kind of based it on Mage-Ring Network , wich I hardly had the mana for yesterday to activate it too put storage counters on. Ofcourse Sculpting Steel is potentionally a dead card, but often there is somewhere a sol ring or another mana rock out. I think it gives more flexibility then Kyren Toy.

Is there a reason that you don't run Darksteel Forge ? Cause yesterday it kinda panicked me out to just wait till someone plays a Austere Command on artifacts.

June 13, 2019 7:28 a.m.

Thanks for the mentions! I guess the cards worked out for ya? :)

June 8, 2019 12:28 p.m.

Also, I've playtested your deck now about 20-25 times to see how your opening hands are. How on earth do you have enough mana. I know everything is cheap, but with 29 lands and hardly any mana rocks supporting your deck I hardly had 4 mana on turn 4...

June 3, 2019 5:08 p.m.

Hey man,

Ever thought about Kyren Negotiations ?

If often won me the game when it entered. And it is basically another "haste" enabler.

June 3, 2019 3:22 p.m.

Patolea Next to Ghostly Prison etc you could also try and run No Mercy ? Also Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker really helps with not being attacked.

I'm also thinking of running maybe Grenzo, Havoc Raiser . I often have problems keeping the monarch, if I can start to goad their creatures with a 1/1 haste deathtouch creature.... But not so sure how reliant that solution will be :)

June 3, 2019 2:10 p.m.

Patolea thanks for the response. I think you are right. It's exactly what happens to me as well. I now decided to rotate some of the cards constantly, not necessarily lowering the powerlevel, but at least be unpredictable. I took away now some of my bigger flashier plays, like Wound Reflection and replaced them with cards like Sudden Spoiling .

Maybe a way of gaining life back might be interesting, although I don't think a 6/6 flying lifelink is really staying below radar as well. I played it in my karlov deck and it rarely survived a turn... I think things like Contemplation , Umezawa's Jitte or Sun Droplet might be more interesting to play if we need some survivability.

June 3, 2019 1:57 p.m.

precociousapprentice, ah okay. Don't get me wrong, but is winning with that combo any different than helm + Leyline? I admire your decision to make the deck in a more aikido way, it's the spirit of the deck. But it still feels like you are forced to deal with a very competitive meta and thus playing these kinda (in my opinion) a bit cheap combo's and in no way in the aikido spirit you claim trying to go back to.

I've played I think over 30 games (a lot less then you have ofcourse) with your old build and I agree with your opinion about the previous build. I also often had the feeling we played more stax and too much big flashy things. But at least Gisela, Blade of Goldnight did exactly what we want to do, use our opponents power against each other AND serving as a wincon.

Also cards like Comeuppance already won me games, of in worst case scenario set my opponent a lot back. Where you choose to ignore these, in my opinion again, very good and thematic cards for the deck.

And things like Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder , Gifted Aetherborn or Serra Ascendant in what way to these add to the spirit off the deck? Putting those in while taking out Master of Cruelties for example? Also wouldnt Duelist's Heritage not be a better option for bruce? And also more in line of the deck? And card's like Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker ?

Yes, they are maybe less competitive, or at least more expensive to put down. But again I kinda have the feeling you are maybe in a very competitive meta.

Dualcaster Mage is something I'm still curious about as well... I love the Reverberate effect's. To the point where I run Fork , Reverberate and Reiterate (the buyback is worth it)

Also Rebuff the Wicked has proven very very valuable for me, when they try to go after your Sunforger

Again I'm in no way trying to bash on your choices or making fun of them. If it comes out like that, then I am sorry in advance. I'm just trying to have a healthy discussion with you :)

Another question, how do you deal with people smacking you in your face either way? I had moments where I really tried to lay low. Only having marchesa out (sometimes I was the monarch, sometimes I wasn't). But then still people tend to attack me for no reason what so ever. Or even worse take Marchesa out, leaving me basically open.

June 3, 2019 12:31 p.m.

Funny QuietMyth, I saw your old primer first. Looking at the list I went from how nice a colorless list with just the eldrazi titans ready to stomp face, nothing more, nothing less. But then I saw the decklist was 4-5 years old and not updated.

Scrolling through some decklistst on tappedout I saw a list that looked kinda familiar and I was super happy seeing it was your old decklist, but now updated. thank you for that. I need about 28 more cards. Most of the expensive stuff I have. The only 2 I'm really missing are Karn Liberated and Scroll Rack

Karn Liberated will be replaced for now by Scour from Existence . About CMC and also used to exile something. (Same Role, ofc Karn is better)

Scroll Rack I'm not so sure about yet. Is it really that good and essential for the deck? Asking because it is also a expensive card. Next to this, it is not on the reserved list so a reprint might happen. If you explain how important it is, I might drop the money for it :)

June 3, 2019 8:33 a.m.

Said on Meren of Clan ......


Frank_Glascock I am playing Dark Confidant it's right there since the start of the deck. Control_Train uses it as well. And it performs amazing.

Control_Train fair enough, I know you have your deck foil and a foil cradle is a bit of a drain on the wallet :) So I totally understand, that being said it really is an amazing upgrade. I played a few games against my girlfriend this weekend, while she was playing meren. And the ramp Cradle provides (even with 2-3) creatures out is amazing and probably the best ramp card we have in the deck, until we have no board state haha.

June 3, 2019 8:26 a.m.

precociousapprentice thanks for the clarification.

So basically we are aiming for drawing our entire deck with Ad Nauseam combo?

Could you explain a bit more to me (if you want ofcourse) how you manage such a quick win? Often when I run the deck I sit quietly at the table dealing with stuff coming my way. Rarely I win fast and often I'm at the last 2 with the right hand of cards..

I'm trying to get my head around some of the changes you made to see the value myself to play them in my own deck :)

June 1, 2019 6:10 a.m.

Hey precociousapprentice

I'm not a 100% sure I understand and like the changes. Yes I understand that you want to go back to the more aikido way, but I really have the feeling you tuned down the powerlevel of the deck. I'm looking a bit at my list as well and I am making some changes too.

I do like the addition of things like Ghostly Prison and Windborn Muse , they feel at home in this deck.

I got some really good results with Orim's Chant , maybe think about that one too. Going back to aikido and not playing Comeuppance feels strange as well.

I did remove the Helm of Obedience combo as well, for me it was unfun and a lot of people experience it in the same way in my meta. Yes it is a finisher, but I don't think it's in the way of the deck. That kinda brings me to my next point, by removing so many wincons Dark Depths for example, also thing's like Insurrection seems like a wincon as well. In my opinion there is no problem with stalling the game and extending it (that's what this deck does) but we do need ways to close it, especially by using our opponents power. Right now I have the feeling this build will just stall and then stall some more.

Same goes for thing's like Wound Reflection and Stolen Strategy , flashy? Yes. Aikido feeling to it? Yes.

Also maybe a Academy Rector ? Makes you go for your important enchantments and people are reluctant to attack you most of the time.

If it is worth anything, this is how I run it now. It's not in the most aikido way possible, but I try to keep the spirit alive. I kinda fell in love with playing a deck and calling it Mardu Control. Especially newer players go "wow, can red do that?" when I play a red counterspell or a copy spell.

I am really glad that you are updating the deck a bit more often. Please don't take my feedback in the wrong way. Your previous decklist resulted for me in one of the most fun decks I've played in my entire magic career (since legion). It took some while before I got used to it how to play it, but it is so awesome because it is so different. Maybe that's also the reason why I really want to give you this feedback and hopefully help improving (even if it is a little bit) your decklist.

So thank you for updating again and hopefully you have a bit more spare time in your personal life that you give us a bit more often a update of how the deck is being played :)

Queen Marchesa: Long May She Reign

Commander / EDH Ripwater


May 31, 2019 1 p.m.

Said on Meren of Clan ......



Oef, I think it's gonna be a hard cut tbh. I'm still not super convinced about him. Basically he is a really cool looking sac outlet with some removal on board. The Proliferate we don't really care too much about. If I'm gonna try it, I might switch him temporarily out for World Shaper . That card hardly sees any play time and I don't run the combo with it. How did he work out for you ?

Yeah I like the disciple of bolas. He is cheap, easy recurable, sac outlet on etb. Krav is good as well, don't get me wrong, but if disciple enters and eats your plaguecrafter that's for some reason still on t he board it's 3 lives and 3 cards, in one go. Where Krav tend to be a bit slower.

Yeah I think I have to agree with you on Sylvan. I really like the card and own 2 that are just sitting in my binder. So yeah I'll give it a go.

Yeah I've cut tooth an nail. After I checked how many tutors I run. Tooth and nail is nice, but I think we run faster ways of getting Sheoldred out and on the field. Next to that, survival and birthing pod fill the same roll, only cheaper and faster. If we really want an effect like that I might choose to run Defense of the Heart

Oh btw, my Gaea's Cradle got free again, I played it in my omnath deck (wich I took apart), so I'm gonna run it in meren for a while I think.

May 31, 2019 6:21 a.m.

Said on Meren of Clan ......


Hey Frank_Glascock,

Yeah I found myself really lacking on the draw for this deck. Often I ended with an empty hand. So therefor I added those 2 to the deck again. I still haven't decided yet if I like Soul of the Harvest that much. But it draws and thats something. Might take it out and put a Sylvan Library in, just to test it out. Krav, the Unredeemed really shines in a token deck tbh.

Disciple of Bolas is something I completely forgot about. I got it in this week and want to try it out for a bit. I think he is quite good.

Mindslicer is awesome. I totally agree with you, I've seen it in play a few times now and it's almost never dissapointing. The only time where I go I'd rather not cast it is when meren is crazy expensive and dumping our hand might be a problem for us.

Birthing Pod has been really really effective for me. Often it results in getting all my pieces out of my deck if left unchecked. I think it's really good and it provides on sorcery speed an answer the moment it hits the field.

May 30, 2019 9:07 p.m.

Did you just update your deck? ;)

May 29, 2019 8:17 p.m.

Said on Meren of Clan ......


oh and the new yawgmoth, that just has been spoiled

May 27, 2019 10:48 a.m.






Commander / EDH - Aggro, Commander / EDH - Goblins, Commander / EDH - Lifegain, Commander / EDH - WB (Orzhov)


Krenko's Command

Commander / EDH* Ripwater


Queen Marchesa: Long May She Reign

Commander / EDH Ripwater


Teysa, Orzhov Scion: Dance Macabre

Commander / EDH Ripwater


Meren of Clan Nel Toth: Dig up her Bones

Commander / EDH Ripwater


Kozilek, The Great Distortion

Commander / EDH* Ripwater


[[Primer]] Karlov's Will

Commander / EDH* Ripwater


Finished Decks 11
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Playing since Legions
Points 950
Avg. deck rating 6.71
T/O Rank 82
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Favorite formats Commander / EDH
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