Ulamog's Nullifier no targets?

Asked by Bovine073 7 years ago

If I cast Ulamog's Nullifier and my opponent has not cast a spell and I activate its ability to exile two exiled cards (such as off of a Delay), does it counter itself or does the ability fizzle? Can I even activate the ability?

Thanks!

BlueScope says... #1

You can't activate the ability first and foremost because it's not an activated ability, but a triggered one :)

That said, you're also unable to do much here without a spell on the stack, because you need to choose a target for the ability, and without a spell on the stack, you're not able to. Because of the way targets work that require paying costs (like in this case), you may actually choose to put two cards from exile into your opponent's graveyard. The ability will trigger, but will be removed from the stack once you reach the point of choosing a target.

603.3d. The remainder of the process for putting a triggered ability on the stack is identical to the process for casting a spell listed in rules 601.2cd. If a choice is required when the triggered ability goes on the stack but no legal choices can be made for it, (...), the ability is simply removed from the stack.

601.2c. The player announces his or her choice of an appropriate (...) object (...) for each target the spell requires. A spell may require some targets only if an (...) additional cost (...) [was paid]; otherwise, the spell is cast as though it did not require those targets. (...)

Long story short: You get to move cards from exile into the graveyard due to the special circumstances, but unless you're immediately able to choose a spell as a target for the ability, it won't be put on the stack.

Also, keep in mind that the ability neither counters itself (because an ability is not a spell), nor does it "fizzle" (which isn't an official game term, but generally means "is being removed from the stack due to lack of any legal targets, even though they were legal when the spell was cast")

October 27, 2016 2:40 a.m.

Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #2

That answer is a bit incorrect. When an ability says "you may" do something and then has an effect based on that, it happens during the resolution of the spell or ability.

117.12. Some spells, activated abilities, and triggered abilities read, [Do something]. If [a player] [does or doesnt], [effect]. or [A player] may [do something]. If [that player] [does or doesnt], [effect]. The action [do something] is a cost, paid when the spell or ability resolves...

601.2c doesn't apply here because the actual text is "...only if an alternative or additional cost (such as a buyback or kicker cost), or a particular mode, was chosen for it; otherwise, the spell is cast as though it did not require those targets..." and costs paid when the spell/ability resolves are not costs that are chosen during casting. Ulamog's Nullifier's ability requires a target to even be put on the stack and will fizzle if the target is not legal when it goes to resolve. In either case you don't get to move the cards because the ability didn't resolve for you to be able to make that choice.

October 27, 2016 5:53 a.m.

Bovine073 says... #3

Sorry by 'counter itself' I had meant countering the creature itself, not the ability.

So from what I understand, Gidgetimer and BlueScope, is that in order to actually pay the cost the ability needs a target? Do note that I have very little finer rules experience, but if that were the case, wouldn't it say ...you may counter target spell if you put two cards from exile to graveyard... (basically backwards of what it says now). Or is this just hypothetical and it could be stated either way because of rule xyz?

Thanks for the answers, will mark when this is all cleared up.

October 27, 2016 6:58 a.m.

Gidgetimer says... #4

In MTG formatting the words "you may" are followed IMMEDIATELY by what you are given a choice to do, not what happens if you make the choice. You may move the cards from exile to the graveyard. If you do you counter the spell. It is not that you may counter the spell. That is the effect, not the additional cost you can pay to have the effect.

This all comes back to the fact that you have to declare targets when something is put on the stack and you don't have to make the choice to move the cards until the ability resolves. You must declare a target for the trigger to put it on the stack. It must have a legal target to resolve. While it is resolving you get the option to move two cards from exile to an opponent's graveyard, and if you do the target spell is countered.

Ulamog's Nullifier's counterspell ability is an ETB, this means that there is no scenario in which the ability can counter the Nullifier it is on, because that spell has already resolved for the ability to be put on the stack.

October 27, 2016 7:31 a.m.

Bovine073 says... #5

Yeah, I realized after I asked the question that it is an ETB. I see how it works now. Thanks!

October 27, 2016 7:37 a.m.

BlueScope says... #6

@Gidgetimer: You would be correct - good catch! It felt weird to me as well, but the way I read it initially, it sounded like the rules would back me...

October 27, 2016 7:55 a.m.