Tapping down creatures and the stack?
Asked by phyrexfulmen 9 years ago
Say my opponent attacks me with a Heliod's Emissary and targets my Kamahl, Pit Fighter with the tap trigger. I respond by tapping my Kamahl, Pit Fighter to deal damage to the Heliod's Emissary . Can my opponent respond to me tapping Kamahl, Pit Fighter with an Icy Manipulator or is the tapping of Kamahl, Pit Fighter always going to go first?
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #2
Tapping Kamahl, Pit Fighter is part of the cost to activate the ability. Costs don't use the stack, and players can't respond to them. Your opponent can attempt to use Icy Manipulator , but it won't do anything.
August 1, 2014 7:28 p.m.
It -will- do something though. It will target Kamahl, Pit Fighter , it will be an activated ability being activated, and it will tap Kamahl even though he is already tapped. In the scenario as described, none of these matter, but in the case of say... Illusionist's Bracers if you were using a creature's tap ability instead of Icy Manipulator , or you controlled a Horobi, Death's Wail it might be relevant to know that even if tapping an already tapped Kamahl doesn't change Kamahl's state any, those things still happen.
August 1, 2014 8:48 p.m.
phyrexfulmen says... #4
So triggered abilities use the stack and activated abilities don't?
August 2, 2014 12:20 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #5
No...
Costs don't use the stack. No player has priority while a cost is being paid, and you can't respond to the cost or the payment.
Spells, activated abilities, and triggered abilities all use the stack.
By the time Kamahl, Pit Fighter 's ability is activated, the cost has been paid and Kamahl, Pit Fighter has already been tapped. Icy Manipulator 's ability can target Kamahl, Pit Fighter , but it won't do anything when it resolves.
August 2, 2014 12:56 a.m.
phyrexfulmen says... #6
So tap to do x is not an activated ability. Only when you pay mana/sac something/etc. it becomes an activated ability?
August 2, 2014 10:58 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #7
Not at all.
Activated abilities are abilities written in the form of [cost]: [effect]. Any ability written in that manner is an activated ability. Triggered abilities use the words "at", "when", or "whenever" and are in the form of [Trigger condition], [effect]. And static abilities are statements that are simply true about the game. Each ability falls into exactly one of these scenarios and is that type of ability at all times.
The (condensed) way that activating abilities or casting spells works is:
You announce the ability or spell and put it on the stack.
You announce all choices to be made for that spell or ability. (modes, targets, the value of any x in the mana cost)
You determine the cost of the spell or ability taking any reductions or extra costs into effect
You pay the cost and can activate mana abilities for mana.
If at any point any step cannot be completed the game state reverts to exactly how it was before you cast the spell or activated the ability.
The casting or activation process is complete and the player who had priority before casting or activating begun receives priority.
What both Epochalyptik and my answers were saying is that tapping Kamahl, Pit Fighter is the cost of activating his ability, and you must pay the cost (by tapping him) before any player receives priority after you announced the ability and put it on the stack. I condensed the 3 pages of rules down quite a bit, if you want the complete version of how to cast a spell or activate an ability they are rule 601 and 602 in the comprehensive rules.
Gidgetimer says... #1
Tapping Kamahl, Pit Fighter is part of the cost of activating the ability. All costs must be payed before the ability goes on the stack and people have the opportunity to respond.
August 1, 2014 7:27 p.m.