Can Seasoned Pyromancer produce tokens if I control Library of Leng?
Asked by StopShot 3 years ago
Cards: Seasoned Pyromancer, Library of Leng
I control a Library of Leng and I cast a Seasoned Pyromancer. Seasoned Pyromancer's ETB says I discard two cards. I choose to discard a land card and a nonland card, but I choose to use Library of Leng's ability to put both of the discarded cards back on top of my library.
I have two questions.
(a.) Since I put the two cards back on top of my library does that mean I'll then proceed to draw those two cards from my library off the same Seasoned Pyromancer ETB that caused me to discard them in the first place?
(b.) How many 1/1 tokens will Seasoned Pyromancer produce off of this single interaction? I have chosen to discard a land card and a nonland card, but if you go to the Gatherer page for Library of Leng and check the rulings it states:
"Since the card goes directly to the library, the card is not revealed unless the spell or ability requiring the discard specifically says it is."
Seasoned Pyromancer's text never states I need to reveal the cards I discard. Therefore my opponents will not know what cards I'm discarding if I choose to use Library of Leng's ability. Again on the Gatherer page for Library of Leng its rulings also state the discarded cards are never put in the graveyard.
"The ability replaces the normal discard action with a discard action that puts the card on the library instead of the graveyard."
According to rule 701.7c:
"If a card is discarded, but an effect causes it to be put into a hidden zone instead of into its owner's graveyard without being revealed, all values of that cards characteristics are considered to be undefined. If a card is discarded this way to pay a cost that specifies a characteristic about the discarded card, that cost payment is illegal; the game returns to the moment before the cost was paid (see rule 717, Handling Illegal Actions)."
Because my opponents don't know what cards I'm discarding, they have no way to verify how many 1/1 tokens I should create off of the Seasoned Pyromancer. Because of Rule 701.7c does that mean the land card and nonland card that I discarded become undefined? If so wouldn't that mean neither of the cards I discarded count as land cards and because of that Seasoned Pyromancer will count that as discarding two nonland cards and therefore create two 1/1 tokens? Does that mean any card discarded by Seasoned Pyromancer and modified by Library of Leng will always count as a nonland card being discarded?
Thanks for your help.
@Neotrup, What about question a? Will I draw the cards I discard off the same trigger?
July 19, 2020 7:13 p.m.
Sorry, I'd missed the initial question, yes, they'll be on top of your library by the time you draw, so you'll draw the cards you discard. Most likely, you'll want to discard to grave to actually get new cards, but if your hand is good, or all land and you need the tokens, Library of Leng can help.
Neotrup says... Accepted answer #1
Since the characteristics aren't defined, they are not lands. If you discard two cards to the top of your library, you'll get two tokens.
July 18, 2020 1:13 a.m.