Who should be allowed to choose answers for Q&A?
TappedOut forum
Posted on Feb. 26, 2015, 5:38 p.m. by Tyrannosary
I have noticed that no matter who answers questions first on this website or how good the answer is it always will say that it is approved by Epokalyptik. I know that the person who asked the question can change the person who answered it but I still think this is wrong. I don't think the question should be "answered" unless the person who asked the question decides for themselves, not the automatic choice of Epokalyptic and then whoever the questioner picked. Let me know what you guys think about this down below.
Schuesseled says... #2
To reiterate he wasn't really asking for someone to explain how it works, just if he was correct in his interpretation. And he was.
February 26, 2015 6:36 p.m.
Tyrannosary says... #3
then you should get a yes or no answer, thank you schuessled
February 26, 2015 6:36 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
@Tyrannosary: Because were it not for me (and now ChiefBell, welcome to the family), then the OPs would be the only people who selected answers. Which would, in turn, mean we have little control over correctness or even whether answers are marked at all. This site isn't exactly the most formal around; we don't have a long-standing and definitive management process like, say, MTGS does.
Eventually, I'd like to have a team of moderators who could handle Q&A selections and thus make the OP's function in the matter more or less irrelevant, but we're not exactly there yet.
@Schuesseled: I disagree. Although your answer is certainly correct, context and detail is generally appropriate and helpful. There are very few times where I'd say a one-word answer is more or equally appropriate.
February 26, 2015 6:37 p.m.
Tyrannosary, please just stop. I don't care if you're a troll or not, you're fighting a losing argument here. yeago may agree with you, to a point, but the fact of the matter is that NO ONE ELSE DOES. And I agree with Epoch here, the Q&A has a debt not only to the answerer and the questioner but everyone else who peruses the Q&A. So selecting an answer that isn't an answer, like someone just saying "yes," is not going to help anyone learn anything.
February 26, 2015 6:38 p.m.
Tyrannosary says... #6
If the moderators are going to select their own answers as the correct one then they should remove the feature for the person who asked the question to do it
February 26, 2015 6:40 p.m.
@yeaGO: No one forced me to, but I know a lot of people who look for answers, will go just read the one that is selected as correct. As for me, I always want to know the why something is done. Knowing what the rules say you can or can't do is important no matter what you are doing.
February 26, 2015 6:40 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
Well, there's no "correct" side to this argument. I think Tyrannosary raises a valid point when he (or she; I don't presume to know) asks why the OP has the ability to select an answer, and we got feedback from that.
February 26, 2015 6:41 p.m.
Tyrannosary says... #9
I am a He, I want to make it clear that I have nothing against you Epochalyptik, I just thought this is a valid question(s) to bring up.
February 26, 2015 6:42 p.m.
I wasn't offering that data as an excuse, I am simply highlighting that there seems to be something going on with that area. Strangely, another MTG Q&A site ended up shutting down due to "the site activity [being] pretty low". So maybe there's nothing behind it dying, although I do wonder where these people are going. Are there really people with less questions than there used to be?
Now I must take issue with your phrasing "improper application" =) When I created that section I hadn't had in mind at all that it would be used specifically for MTG rules Q&A or strictly anything in general. But you showed initiative and had a vision for it and so I was content to leave it to you to manage. But I can't say that I very well agree with your dismissing the importance of the, as you say, "pat on the back". I think if you look around the site there are plenty of elements of it everywhere and I would say it contributes to the overall success of the site.
So the phrase "Accepted answer" is really the thing that I think could come down to "improper application". And in my mind, the blessing that a questioner gives upon an answer doesn't mean "Most objective answer". It just means that's the answer the question-er accepted. It doesn't remove further responses, nor does stop anyone from further fleshing out their responses. Also note that the questioner is free to accept a new answer if they feel like it. Now, in cases where the questioner hasn't bothered to come back and select an answer, I think that editorial control becomes more useful.
February 26, 2015 6:43 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #11
I take your point. Epochalyptik And re-reading it, the question could be mis-leading to someone not in the know so I'm sure your answer is 'better' in that regard as it gives a full explanation.
February 26, 2015 6:43 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #12
Well I have learned things, so today wasn't a waste. But I still don't see how this got dragged out over this many pages.
February 26, 2015 6:45 p.m.
I live for these threads. The disdain fuels me.....
Tyrannosary, your rank is 1707. Is that honestly effecting your moving up that much? I don't know how many points you get for a "right answer", but I'm sure it's not only irrelevant, but less than what you've gotten for making this thread bitching about it. Epochalyptik does a darn good job of keeping the site up, and If points are your problem, then complain to microsoft/sony too, because I'm sure plenty of their mods and help desk people have insane gamerscores/trophy counts. This is a website, not your bank account. The numbers literally don't matter.
P.S. I find it ironic the man complaining about the website overlords has a username with Tyranny in it.
February 26, 2015 6:45 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #14
"they should remove the feature for the person who asked the question to do it"
This a fairly sensible suggestion, let mods choose best answers, and still allow askers to mark it as resolved.
February 26, 2015 6:46 p.m.
filledelanuit says... #15
Unfortunately that would take too much time out of the mods day. They could have something like Q&A only mods who help with it but that would be rather complicated and kinda unnecessary.
February 26, 2015 6:48 p.m.
GoofyFoot "your rank is 1707. Is that honestly effecting your moving up that much". in relative terms: hell yes it is. I think its the largest reward the site offers. :P
February 26, 2015 6:48 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #17
I'm going to weigh in here: I think the main purpose of the OP selecting an answer at this point in time is to lighten the load for epoch and other mods. If an answer is insufficient, it makes sense for a more complete answer to be selected (whether that answer belongs to epoch or not is irrelevant). I think epoch changing the selected answer is necessary in many cases to build the credibility of the site.
February 26, 2015 6:48 p.m.
Tyrannosary says... #19
Then why give us the option to choose which answer is best if Epochalyptic "always" has the best answer?
February 26, 2015 6:51 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #20
Probably the biggest reason usage of the QandA section has gone down yeaGO is because as more and more questions get answered, more and more cases of those question will appear in a google search. Most of the time, the top google searches for when I look for an answer to a mtg related rules question come up as either tappedout, the mtgsalvation wiki, or that other really popular deckbuilding site (whose name escapes me at the moment). Rarely will I find an interaction that I can't name.
And Tyrannosary, the MAIN, MAIN purpose of the selected answer is to denote to other users what the best answer is. Most of the people who frequent the QandA section are actually users from google searches, and they are looking for the most detailed and most thought out explanation to a proposed question. They give jack shit about the petty "oh I want my points" theme T/O users (like me) have.
The best reason why the questioner can select the best answer is currently here at the moment is because it helps the job of the moderators out, even by just an extent. If there was a notification that was sent to people who asked questions that basically said "You haven't selected the best answer to your question, you should probably go about doing that", then Epoch's job, as a moderator, would be less hectic and you wouldn't see him changing the selected answer as often.
Really, this is a case of "Shit happens everyday and you learn how to deal with it".
February 26, 2015 6:51 p.m.
Nope. That section isn't increasing in passive traffic either. I simply have no evidence for the theory that its becoming a greater resource for the mtg community at large--all trends show it has less questions, less answerers, and less eyeballs.
February 26, 2015 6:54 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #22
He doesn't always have the best answer, but if he does, why shouldn't his answer be marked as best?
February 26, 2015 6:54 p.m.
Tyrannosary says... #23
If you have something that alerts moderators that a question's answer is wrong then why dont you have a "dictionary" of rules and regulations insted of a Q&A page?
February 26, 2015 6:54 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #24
Rarely will I not find an interaction that I'm looking for* (edit to last sentence on first paragraph).
We also could have a function in which Epoch's answer automatically becomes the accepted answer if he posts on to it. I would put in some mod timeline restrictions, but that defeats the purpose of the QandA section in that some people will want the answer right away. And I also think Epoch will disagree with this function.
February 26, 2015 6:56 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #25
Tyrannosary Okay, it was cute the first 6 times, now it's just irritating. I'm sorry for my bluntness, but this has honestly gone far enough.
It has been explain to you that Epochalyptik does not use his answers. He does not always provide the answer because other users provide meaningful answers. Case closed, end of story. Stop talking about it. You now have your own answer.
February 26, 2015 6:57 p.m.
filledelanuit says... #26
@Tyrannosary There already exists a dictionary of rules. It's called the comprehensive rules. It happens to be 209 pages long + the IPG + the JAR + the MTR. That's way too much stuff for most people to read to find an answer.
February 26, 2015 6:57 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #27
because there is already one of those Tyrannosary. Go to mtgsalvation wiki and you'll find most of it easily there. But the reason why people ask questions is because they don't want to go plodding through reading through lines and lines of text. The rule book for MtG is MASSIVE.
February 26, 2015 6:58 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #28
You misread Femme 's comment. She said a notification to someone that has asked a question, not a notification to a mod about a wrong answer
February 26, 2015 6:58 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #29
@yeaGO I believe that it is due to the offline Magic communities becoming much stronger. I have been encountering many more experienced players in my area than new players, and it is rare that a new player will enter the game without some guidance from their LGS or other players. If I have a question about Magic, I normally just ask someone I know. The only time when I look it up is if multiple people give different answers.
Also I believe that the "accepted answer" should be for the most complete answer that fully answers the question. Users are already rewarded for posting their answers with points, so the extra points from the "accepted answers" status really isn't a huge issue.
That being said, if the OP is adamant that one answer is superior to another, I believe that they currently have the power to change it back after Epoch changes it to the most complete answer. Best to just leave the system as it is, I think that it doesn't need improvement at this time.
February 26, 2015 6:59 p.m.
Tyrannosary says... #30
thats why there are things called search bars, also what level judge are you Epochalyptik?
February 26, 2015 7 p.m.
accelerando11 says... #32
...And here's me not noticing the four pages and posting something that was already done twice. Whoops.
February 26, 2015 7:01 p.m.
quesobueno123 says... #33
This maybe the stupidest thread on the site. (And I have seen just chatting) OP is wrong, very, very wrong.
February 26, 2015 7:02 p.m.
Tyrannosary says... #34
Not all decks are made up,and yes points do matter because they show your status and some people (like me) do care about that
February 26, 2015 7:02 p.m.
The reason why the answer "yes" isn't a good enough answer is because it doesn't fully explain it to others who may be reading it why that is the right answer and until you give reasoning its just like accusing someone of something with out proof its a he said she said
also a side note if you found the answer "yes" acceptable then you probably already knew the answer and there was no reason to ask it in the first place either that or you break the human mold and aren't in the least bit curious about anything but its more likely you knew the answer
February 26, 2015 7:03 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #36
@yeaGO, post 3:19, (would it be possible to make links to post numbers in shortcode??)
Some of them may be going to MTGS, WOTC's forums, or various rules blogs. But I also think there's probably a growing trend toward reliable support at the LGS level. In general, players are more educated now about many things from price to netdecking. The internet-based Magic community is largely to thank for that. But I don't presume to have a single answer for the trend. I just think there are various factors at play. That said, the Q&A still sees a lot of local use; our users are still asking questions and getting answers, even if the section's statistics don't reflect over-time growth.
And I certainly don't mean to detract from the overall community spirit; it's one of the things that shines more here than on the other forums I've visited. Rather, I think that there's a time and place for it, and the Q&A happens to fall outside of that circle. In terms of usability, the Q&A is naturally suited to supporting rules questions and other related posts because it offers the opportunity to mark a single answer as correct (which is basically what "accepted" means in this context). Further, if a question has "accepted" and "unaccepted" answers, readers are more likely to skip to the "accepted" answer and treat it as fact.
While it's certainly possible for answer selection to be a reward, I think the feature's best use would be to identify complete and correct answers. And we have the control to make that goal achievable. The upvote system and pure written feedback should be the sources of "pat-on-the-back" interactions.
@Tyrannosary, post 4:8 and 4:12,
I don't always have the correct answer. There are plenty of times I don't respond or even have an incorrect answer (the latter is extremely rare, but it does still happen). You're still focusing on the who and not the what or why.
And as for why we don't have a rule dictionary, people don't always consult them. I'd bet, without going back to look, that about 50% of the questions asked in the Q&A could be answered by Gatherer rulings, which are provided on card pages in very popular card databases, and another 35-40% could be answered by a single excerpt from the Comprehensive Rulebook. But not everyone consults these resources, and we shouldn't force them to if we can handle their questions and point them in a more self-sufficient direction for next time.
Also, we don't have something that alerts us when an answer is wrong. I personally proofread every question that goes through the Q&A. That's as close to a system as we get.
February 26, 2015 7:04 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #37
quesobueno123 at least in Just Chatting the conversations can be productive. This isn't productive. This needs to stop.
February 26, 2015 7:04 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #38
Points do not matter Tyrannosary. User rankings only dictate how active you've been on this. So you could easily spam comments and it not meaning anything. It takes 1 month to get to the top 100. It really isn't that hard. As for deck rankings, high deck rankings are best received by jank, joke, budget and unique decks. So just build something in it with 300 Storm Crows, make some witty remark in the deck description, and call it a day.
Lots of conversations are productive in Just Chatting. Go there if you need answers to life questions.
February 26, 2015 7:11 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #39
I agree strongly with Femme (especially the last part).
Yesterday, I was having issues with volume control on my computer, and someone told me how to fix it (throwing water on it did the trick, in case anyone was curious, although my computer did make some funny sounds for a little while)
February 26, 2015 7:16 p.m.
Tyrannosary says... #40
I was just trying to give the moderators/administrators some ideas for their Q&A
February 26, 2015 7:18 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #41
It seems that you just needed to clean your laptop. You can remove the keys, take some rubbing alcohol (isopropyl alcohol) and some q-tips to safely clean out a laptop.
February 26, 2015 7:19 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #43
If you wanted to do that, then do it in a constructive fashion Tyrannosary. Your method certainly was not constructive. Basically, if you wish to give admins/mods ideas for the Q&A, you should do it in a fashion that makes Epoch's job easier. Because he's pretty much the one who cleans it all.
February 26, 2015 7:20 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #44
The keys work, Femme, it just seems that they are doing something different now
February 26, 2015 7:21 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #45
Again, some useful discussion did come from this thread. It's not a write-off.
February 26, 2015 7:22 p.m.
Tyrannosary says... #46
Yeah sorry, I should have written this stuff on his wall instead of this
February 26, 2015 7:23 p.m.
also chat.magicjudges.org gets a lot of people now. Its what me and all my friends switched to.
Why search through google when you can ask Volunteer Judges in an IM who will talk to you about it in a matter of seconds
BTW...
...This thread is stupid
Schuesseled says... #1
@ Epochalyptik,
I couldn't give the tiniest toss of whom the best answer is rewarded to. I actually hadn't noticed this was a feature.
But I feel I should point out my answer #2 was about as complete and definitive as you can get.
If you ask a yes or no question....
February 26, 2015 6:30 p.m.