Wording on M14's Colossal Whale.
Asked by Rayenous 11 years ago
Mythic Spoiler has a spoiler of a creature called Colossal Whale.
The text on the Whale says: "Whenever Colossal Whale attacks, you may exile target creature defending player controls until Colossal Whale leaves the battlefield. (That creature returns under the owners control.)"
The wording seems odd to me, and I'm wondering if it will have an impact on how it interacts in the game.
Most cards that have an ability like this (Fiend Hunter ) have two separate triggered abilities. One for Enters the Battlefield, and another for Leaves the Battlefield. - This is something that can be 'abused', because you can cause them to stack in reverse order, forcing the creature to be exiled permanently. - I understand that this would not happen with Colossal Whale... but I have a different concern/question.
Since the portion of the text which states the creatures will return is not a triggered ability, will the creatures simply return, without using the stack? I'm just curious if it's "stack', 'state based effect', or 'other'. - I'm also curious as to what people have though of in terms of how it may interact with other abilities (though that part is probably best asked in the General Forum)
Absinthman says... #2
I believe that the Colossal Whale's wording is like this exactly to prevent this kind of shenanigans. The text is written as a single ability that doesn't create a delayed trigger, therefore the creature will return as a state-based action that can't be responded to as soon as the Whale leaves the battlefield and any player would receive priority. It's similar to Master Thief
. You would lose control of the permanent he "stole" as soon, as you lost control of him.
For the second part of the question, I don't think Turn / Burn
will have any effect. The condition for returning the creature to the battlefield is a part of the original ability that exiled it. It will not keep the creature from coming back.
June 17, 2013 8:49 a.m.
if your using Turn and burn though couldnt you jsut kill it? since that is exactly waht that card does
June 17, 2013 9:27 a.m.
Absinthman says... #4
Rayenous isn't trying to kill the Whale, but to use Turn to make the Whale lose its ability when it happens to die, in the attempt to prevent the exiled creature from coming back.
June 17, 2013 9:36 a.m.
Absinthman says... #5
This trick works with Fiend Hunter because when your opponent tries to kill it to get his exiled creature back, you can cast Turn on it to make the Hunter lose its abilities. Thus, when it leaves the battlefield, it doesn't have any abilities that would trigger and the exiled creature is lost good. I don't think this works with the Whale's wording though.
June 17, 2013 9:39 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #6
The following is my current understanding of this based on the rules we have, but be on the lookout for additional rules (or additional notes on existing rules) once M14 is finally released:
The creature doesn't really "return as a state based effect". Colossal Whale's triggered ability creates an effect with a specific duration, much like Sower of Temptation or something similar. The duration is established when the triggered ability resolves, and it doesn't matter whether or not Colossal Whale still has the ability when he leaves the battlefield. When the Whale leaves the battlefield the duration ends, and the creature returns to the battlefield that very moment, even if it's in the middle of something else resolving (hence not being a state based action).
June 17, 2013 10:31 a.m.
Also, the theme of the whale just eating people is pretty stellar.
June 17, 2013 11:30 a.m.
yamicannon says... #9
I have a question about the accepted answer with the Turn spell the whale is no longer the whale so the whale technically never leaves the battlefield if it dies while being a weird and the ability says when the whale leaves the battlefield return exiled creature so based on the wording the exiled creatures wouldn't return right?
August 10, 2013 4:55 a.m.
Absinthman says... #10
@yamicannon: Whenever a card references itself by its name, the reference simply means "this object". Actual name of that object doesn't matter in these cases. The only cases where names really matter is when spells or abilities say "a card named xxxx".
Rayenous says... #1
More specifically, for the second part of my question(s)...
Would an ability like Turn of Turn / Burn , prevent a creature from returning when the Colossal Whale leaves play? - I know it prevents Fiend Hunter 's exiled creatures from returning, but with no Triggered ability, I'm think this trick wouldn't work for the Whale...
June 17, 2013 8:23 a.m.