Will spreading seas make utopia sprawl fall of a forest?
Asked by nickiru 10 years ago
the debate is that teh target is ilegal, but it has already done the targeting when i enchanted (past tense). So it shouldn't matter after the legal targeting resolves if the land changes to a island later. right? may i see a bunch of rulings?
Gidgetimer says... #2
Aura permanents don't target. The answer is still yes it falls off. However; it is because of enchanting an illegal object, not having an illegal target. The rule about what auras enchant is:
303.4c If an Aura is enchanting an illegal object or player as defined by its enchant ability and other applicable effects, the object it was attached to no longer exists, or the player it was attached to has left the game, the Aura is put into its owners graveyard
August 5, 2014 7:44 p.m.
I'm really sorry it took me so long to respond, I had to leave for an unexpected situation.
Anyways: I just want to debate this a little bit so I have no question about this...
the 303.4c rule says if I am 'enchanting.' Which is a verb, meaning it's in the process of 'targeting;' for lack of a better term. Yes if the land changes away from a forest, then it is illegal. However, from what I would rationalize, the enchanting process is already complete, there is no further targeting or attachment processes for the illegalities to take affect. When it 'was' targeting, it was legal.
Utopia Sprawl states; enchant forest. So when I am choosing what to enchant, I can only choose a forest. When that process is complete, it doesn't make sense to me why it would pop off if the land changes later, because the 'enchant forest' is merely a limiter when I am choosing what to enchant.
If that made any sense, lol
August 6, 2014 12:52 a.m.
FALLEN-X-ANGEL says... #4
nickiru, It also says "enchanted forest". If it's no longer a forest, then it's an illegal enchantment.
August 6, 2014 1:03 a.m.
Hmm, you have a point. However; it still shouldn't just pop off. Instead it would not allow it to produce the extra mana because it won't trigger due to it not being a forest.
Why should it pop off?
Or should it not and just not produce the extra mana?
August 6, 2014 1:08 a.m.
FALLEN-X-ANGEL says... Accepted answer #6
Because the enchanted island is illegal according to the card. because it's already given in the 2nd comment.
Also here
702.5c If an Aura has multiple instances of enchant, all of them apply. The Auras target must follow the restrictions from all the instances of enchant. The Aura can enchant only objects or players that match all of its enchant abilities.
and the restriction is to forest. Since the land is an island, it's put into the graveyard.
August 6, 2014 1:16 a.m.
Ahhh!
Now rule 702.5c is concrete. I can't argue that:
"...The Auras target must follow the restrictions from all the instances of enchant. The Aura can enchant only objects or players that match all of its enchant abilities."
Boom, that nails it.
Thanks lots.
August 6, 2014 1:22 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
@nickiru: Enchanting does not imply targeting as a permanent. Auras only target as spells; they do not target anything as permanents.
FALLEN-X-ANGEL says... #1
Always link your cards while asking questions.
Spreading Seas
Utopia Sprawl
Yes, Spreading Seas , will make the utopia fall off due to illegal targeting.
608.2b If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether the targets are still legal. A target thats no longer in the zone it was in when it was targeted is illegal. Other changes to the game state may cause a target to no longer be legal; for example, its characteristics may have changed or an effect may have changed the text of the spell. If the source of an ability has left the zone it was in, its last known information is used during this process. The spell or ability is countered if all its targets, for every instance of the word target, are now illegal. If the spell or ability is not countered, it will resolve normally. However, if any of its targets are illegal, the part of the spell or abilitys effect for which it is an illegal target cant perform any actions on that target, make another object or player perform any actions on that target, or make that target perform any actions. The effect may still determine information about illegal targets, though, and other parts of the effect for which those targets are not illegal may still affect them.
August 5, 2014 7:34 p.m.