Vision Charm + Phyrexian Dreadnought

Asked by doinitwrong 13 years ago

I cast a Phyrexian Dreadnought , then in response to his ETB effect triggering, I cast Vision Charm , phasing him out. When he phases back in, does he have summoning sickness?

sporkife says... Accepted answer #1

No. A creature with phasing is not considered to leave the battlefield when it phases out, so when it comes back during your next draw step it will have been under your control for a turn.

May 13, 2011 10:29 p.m.

GLBoxingGlove says... #2

but wouldn't the ETB effect have to be paid before you could cast and Instant or would it still use the stack?

But if its on the stack, shouldn't it have to be paid anyways or sacrifice itself, even if its phased out.

In either case, its ETB effect should trigger when it phases back in the next turn. I don't think Vision Charm can be used to avoid the sacrificing part.

May 13, 2011 11:32 p.m.

MagnorCriol says... #3

Actually, though phased-out creatures are treated as though they don't exist, they aren't actually leaving the battlefield.

702.23d The phasing event doesn't actually cause a permanent to change zones or control, even though it's treated as though it's not on the battlefield and not under its controller's control while it's phased out. Zone-change triggers don't trigger when a permanent phases in or out.

So "when X enters the battlefield" triggers, which are a form of zone-change triggers, don't go off every time they phase in.You also could cast the Charm in response to the EtB trigger; the trigger goes on the stack just like any other trigger or ability (or spell, for that matter). This is actually the basis of the Dreadnought + Stifle trick - cast the Dreadnought, Stifle its triggered ability.I think this actually works; while it's phased out you can't interact with it or count it, so you don't have anything to sacrifice when the trigger resolves. I'm unfamiliar with phasing, though. It's one of those really weird rules they've done away with.

May 14, 2011 12:54 a.m.

GLBoxingGlove says... #4

Thats what I wasn't sure of. Stifle is countering it. But Phasing It would still leave it on the stack. So what would happen?

May 14, 2011 7:23 a.m.

MagnorCriol says... #5

Well once the Charm resolves and phases it out, it's treated as though it doesn't exist - you can't interact with it, effects that count creatures on the battlefield don't see it, Wrath effects won't destroy it, etc.

So what I think happens is that when its sacrifice trigger resolves, you have the choice to sacrifice 12 power's worth of other creatures or sacrifice the Dreadnought.

Because the Dreadnought "doesn't exist," you can choose to basically ignore the trigger. It resolves, and because you don't sacrifice creatures, it defaults to sacrificeing the Dreadnought; but because that doesn't exist, the trigger goes peacefully into the night.

When the Dreadnought phases in next turn, there's no more trigger to sac it to, so it lives.

May 14, 2011 7:59 a.m.

AegairEtapa says... #6

You'd have the opportunity to either sacrifice permanent to the ability or not. If you don't the ability tries to make you sacrifice Phyrexian Dreadnought , but since the Phyrexian Dreadnought doesn't exist, in game terms, then you can't sacrifice it. So the ability fizzles, and when the Phyrexian Dreadnought phases in, all is fine.

May 14, 2011 8:01 a.m.