Switch Power/Toughness with Equipments/Auras

Asked by ajh123 13 years ago

When switching a creature's power and toughness, and the creature has an aura or equipment on it, does the boost also exchange with power and toughness, or are the boosts and power/toughness independent of each other?

For example, I have a Wall of Stone equipped with a Bonesplitter , making it a 2/8 and I play Inside Out to switch it's power and toughness. Would it then become an 8/2 and that's it? Or would it become an 8/0 (+2, making it 10/0)? Or would it become a 2/8 and then get an additional +2/+0 since the bonesplitter is still on it, making it a 10/2?

Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #1

If my interpretation is correct, I believe that it would become an 8/2. Basically, this comes down to layers (which are one of the most difficult-to-grasp concepts in the game).

Reference: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=judge/article/20091105a

P/T switching effects are applied in the last layer: 7E. I believe that Equipment/Aura bonuses are applied in 7C, but in any case come before layer 7E.

Imagine layers as a kind of stack-like system. Basically, they are applied from 1 to 7, with 7E being the last layer applied.

Therefore, the wall you control would be a 0/8. Then, the equip bonus is applied, making it a 2/8. Then, its P/T gets switched, making it an 8/2.

June 6, 2011 12:55 a.m.

BrightGreenLine says... #2

Epochalyptik is correct. The relevant part is that P/T swapping effects come last, so whenever there's a P/T swapping effect in play, anything that would increase power instead increases toughness, and vice versa. You'd have a 8/2 Wall of Stone until end of turn after Inside Out is done, and then it'd pop back to 2/8 at the end of the turn.

June 6, 2011 2:30 a.m.

GLBoxingGlove says... #3

you could always choose to just re-attach the equipment after the p/t switch, if you wanted that bonus to stay the same as on the card.

although, with your card choices, if you would chose to re-attach the equipment, your creature would have 0 toughness long enough to kill it.

June 7, 2011 1:58 p.m.

BrightGreenLine says... #4

Even if you reattached the equipment and the wall didn't die somehow, it would still be an 8/2 until end of turn. According to the layers that Epochalyptik quoted, power and toughness switches affect every spell, ability, or other effect for as long as they last. In this example, no matter when you attach Bonesplitter if Inside Out has already been played it will increase the creature's toughness. Once Inside Out wears off, it'll go back to increasing power as printed.

June 7, 2011 10:02 p.m.

GLBoxingGlove says... #5

but the layer thing would apply to everything until the last layer (the switch) happens.after that, anything added, should basically start a new set of layers, with the switch p/t total being the lowest.

although, i could be wrong. thats how i see it.

June 7, 2011 10:36 p.m.

BrightGreenLine says... #6

No, the layers thing says that all modifications of type A happen first, then B, then C, then D, etc.

The first thing that happens to a creature is you set its power and toughness. Any and all effects that set its power and toughness are applied here in the order they entered play:

First, CDAs that set the creature's power and toughness are applied. This is usually the printed p/t numbers, though it also applies to cases like Tarmogoyf whose power and toughness are defined by external states.

Second, abilities that set power and tougness to fixed values are like Diminish are applied in the order they came into play.

Third, effects that increase or decrease power and toughness directly are applied. They are also applied in the order they entered play: First a Disfigure will give a creature -2/-2, then Inspired Charge will give it +2/+1.

Fourth, counters are applied. +1/+1, -1/-1, or even the odd +2/+1 and etcetera counters are applied to the creature's power and toughness.

Finally, effects that swap power and toughness are applied after everything else.

In between each step, you add up the variations from each prior step. Bonesplitter 's modification is applied in the third layer, which is counted before power and toughness swaps always.

It doesn't matter when the effects came into play: Whenever there is an active effect that swaps power and toughness, until that effect leaves play abilities that change power will change toughness instead and vice versa.

(These are not officially the first five layers of a card's definition, they are actually the five layers involved with power and toughness effects. The preceding 6 layers are irrelevant to this particular discussion.)

June 8, 2011 1 a.m.