Replacement effect? (Cauldron of Souls, Grumgully, Persist)
Asked by Vall 2 years ago
Player A attacks Player B
Player B Taps Cauldron of Souls, giving his Grumgully, the Generous Persist, then he blocks with both his Grumgully and his Woodfall Primus, they both die and reccur with persist.
What happens?
A: Grumgully gives Woodfall Primus a +1/+1 counter, negating the -1/-1 counter. B: Grumgully can't give Woodfall Primus a +1/+1 counter because they enter the battlefield at the same time.
-Due Dilligence Below-
What I've gathered is; rule (603.6a) states that ETB-triggers are checked for all creatures, including the newcomers.
However, Replacement effects (614) override this, and cannot target/trigger of creatures that enter simultaneously (according to this post https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/24382/what-happens-when-multiple-canker-abominations-enter-the-battlefield-simultaneou )
I am confused if Grumgully's ability would be considered a replacement effect? If it is, WHY is it considered a replacement effect?
Because Grumgully, the Generous's ability is a replacement effect, it won't give counters to creatures entering at the same time. That said, your example is not two creatures entering at the same time. If two creatures with persist controlled by the same player die at the same time, both persist triggers trigger and the controller chooses the order to out them on the stack. The creatures return one at a time, sequentially. You can have Grumgully return first so that Woodfall Primus enters with both counters (which then both get removed). Your opponent could also kill Grumgully between the persist triggers resolving to try and stop this.
Omniscience_is_life says... #1
Replacement effects use the words "instead" and/or "enters with/as", plus a few less common ones like "skip".
In this case, Grumgully doesn't yet exist as an object as Primus is entering ("as" and "when" are quite different in Magic; "when" in this case means "immediately after this permanent spell/token becomes a permanent", whereas "as" means "while this permanent spell/token is becoming a permanent")--so his replacement effect can't apply to the Primus.
December 21, 2021 5:52 p.m.