Removing Angel of Serenity in order to force a permanent exile
Asked by meecht 12 years ago
Do you have to ask your opponent the order in which they are placing Angel of Serenity 's abilities on the stack if you plan to remove the angel in a way to force a permanent exile?
Is there even a reason to place the abilities on the stack so that the exile effect resolves last? That would cause a permanent exile effect, anyway, wouldn't it?
GreatSword says... #2
When Angel of Serenity s ETB effect goes on the stack, your opponent will have to announce the 0-3 creatures he's targeting to exile. However, since the ability says "you may exile..." he can choose not to exile the creatures when the effect resolves.
So, if he lays down the angel and targets the 3 Thragtusk in his graveyard, and you (while the effect is on the stack) Doom Blade the angel, it's LTB effect will trigger. The LTB effect will resolve, then the ETB effect will resolve. He can then choose to exile the 3 Thragtusk or not.
April 22, 2013 10:03 a.m.
Still a good way to keep their angel from being useful (besides using a Counterspell ).
April 22, 2013 10:36 a.m.
I apologize for the confusing wording. I had not finished my coffee yet...
April 22, 2013 10:38 a.m.
JUNDISTHEBEST says... #5
I'm not quite getting this. How I thought it was was that angel's ETB triggers blink while second ability is on the stack therefore the angel's 2nd ability never resolved, or did I make a mistake?
April 27, 2013 11:09 a.m.
Your post is a maze of incomplete statements and poor punctuation. The only meaning I can derive from your post displays such absurd understanding of rules on your behalf, that decency forces to give you the benefit of the doubt.
I'm going to walk you through this.
Normally, the Angel's abilities works like this:
- Angel enter the battlefield
- Exiling ability goes on the stack.
- Exiling ability resolves.
and then later
- Angel leaves the battlefield
- Return from exile ability goes on the stack.
- Return from exile ability resolves.
The only way to cause permanent exile with the Angel, barring intervention by Trickbind, Voidslime, or Sundial of the Infinite, is to force it to place its LTB ability on the stack while its ETB ability is sitting unresolved on the stack.
This is done by causing the angel to change zones (hand, graveyard, etc) by bouncing it, destroying it, or exiling it.
So, in conclusion, remove it before its etb goes off and you force the ltb to resolve first, leaving its targets permanently exiled.
April 27, 2013 2:58 p.m.
Remember that it says MAY on the card. That means your opponent has the chance to avoid exiling the cards he targeted even after you have removed the angel, so you'd better hope your opponent doesn't know what is happening with the trigger stack.
April 27, 2013 5:53 p.m.
What? I'm not sure what you're suggesting, but the only "may" about the effect is whether it triggers or not.
Immediately after the angel hits the board, its controller decides whether its etb trigger goes on the stack or not, and only after the angel's controller decides to pass priority (such as after the ability has triggered) can the opponent decide whether to interfere with the creature or not.
And once the trigger is on the stack, its controller don't get a choice about whether things get exiled or not. Once the ability is on the stack, there are no more "mays".
I repeat: the only optional thing about this es whether the ability goes on the stack to being with. If you move the angel before the etb resolves, the targets will get exiled indefinitely.
April 27, 2013 8:39 p.m.
You are incorrect. Angel of Serenity 's trigger will go on the stack when it enters the battlefield no matter what, and at this point, the controller chooses up to 3 target creatures or creature cards. Then the active player receives priority. When the trigger goes to resolve, the controller chooses then whether or not to exile the targets.
April 27, 2013 8:53 p.m.
Here is the relevant CR for you:
603.5. Some triggered abilities' effects are optional (they contain "may," as in "At the beginning of your upkeep, you may draw a card"). These abilities go on the stack when they trigger, regardless of whether their controller intends to exercise the ability's option or not. The choice is made when the ability resolves.
April 27, 2013 8:57 p.m.
@aavb132, the may is relevant only when the ability tries to resolve. You have to read the card carefully: the "may" clause is attached to the exile choice (same as any card with similar wording). The card does not read "You may choose up to three target creatures or target creature cards in your graveyard. Those cards are exiled."
April 27, 2013 9:13 p.m.
Oh man. I apologize for the very wrong and somewhat hostile post I made. This may sound like an excuse, but I promise it's not: I don't always drink scotch, but when I do, I forget how rules work.
I'll skulk off in shame for a few days, now.
aavb132 says... Accepted answer #1
Your post seems strange and unfocused, so I'll try to walk you through this.
In order to permanently exile something with Angel of Serenity, or Oblivion Ring or what have you, you must force the "return to the battlefield trigger" to resolve 1st.
The only way to so is to cause the Angel to leave the battlefield before it's exiling ability resolves.
So it goes like this:
You can't choose to arrange a single Angel of Serenity's abilities on the stack in order to force a permanent exile. You would need outside assistance (a second angel, perhaps?) to that.
April 22, 2013 9:56 a.m.