Regenerate and Combat Damage
Asked by mckin 11 years ago
Okay so I thought I understood this, but even the local PTQ grinders disagree from store to store. Can you block and regenerate after damage? Can you block and regenerate before damage?
I was playing in a tournament and my opponent regenerated, and said I still gained life from lifelink, and I asked why he didn't regenerate before damage, and he replied the only time you can regenerate is before damage. However doing that removes your creature from combat, aka I wouldn't deal damage/gain life, so I was trying to understand his reasoning. I also understand that if it was after damage, essentially the creature would die to state based effects before being able to regenerate. Just looking for some rules texts and quotes, since Im thinking of it the same way you would block something like Blood Baron of Vizkopa
with AEtherling
and blink before damage.
So much confusion happening.
Regeneration creates a shield around the creature, essentially a replacement effect with "Would be destroyed" as the triggering event.
With that shield around a creature, if it -would- be destroyed, instead, all damage is removed from it, it is untapped, and it is removed from combat.
If he regenerated it before damage was dealt, damage would still be -dealt- and so lifelink would absolutely still gain you life. But after damage was dealt and state-based actions were checked and the game tried to destroy the creature for having lethal damage marked on it, the Regeneration shield would leap in and prevent the destruction.
It isn't removed from combat when you regenerate it (when the shield goes ON) it is removed from combat when the shield comes -off- preventing destruction.
So if he declared a blocker, and regenerated it, and then before damage, you, say...Murder ed the creature, the regeneration shield would save it and also remove it from combat.
January 24, 2014 11:28 a.m.
argumentum_ad_stultitiam says... #4
Activating regeneration applies what's often referred to as a "regeneration shield." From the reminder text:
Regeneration is a replacement effect which means: "The next time this permanent would be destroyed this turn, it isn't. Instead tap it, remove all damage from it, and remove it from combat."
In your example, let's say your opponent was blocking your Hopeful Eidolon with his Asphodel Wanderer . At any point during the turn before the damage happens, he can activate the regenerate ability, and the "shield" goes up. When the damage finally does happen, you gain the life from lifelink and the replacement effect kicks in: instead of being destroyed from the 1 damage, the Wanderer is tapped and removed from combat, and all damage is removed from it. Because regenerate only works once per effect ("The next time [...]"), the Wanderer is now once again vulnerable to a Spark Jolt or any other effect.
January 24, 2014 11:30 a.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #5
I just wanted to stress that regeneration is a replacement effect in addition to everything the others said. The ability creating the "regeneration shield" uses the stack like normal, and needs to resolve before the the event that regeneration replaces happens.
January 24, 2014 11:50 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
Just to add something else to the above comments (which are all correct), a regeneration shield must exist before the destruction event. Once your creature has been dealt lethal damage, state-based actions will check and attempt to destroy it. If you haven't already activated the regeneration effect and put a regeneration shield on the creature, it won't be regenerated. SBAs happen before players receive priority, so you can't activate the ability after the permanent has been dealt damage, but before it is destroyed.
Remember also that there is a significant difference between putting a regeneration shield on a permanent and consuming the regeneration shield to replace destruction. The regeneration effect (prevent destruction, remove damage, tap, remove from combat) only happens when the permanent would be destroyed. It does not happen when you put the regeneration shield on the permanent.
January 24, 2014 12:23 p.m.
thanks guys i always interpreted that it was removed from combat when regenerate was activated not the shield being removed causing it
megawurmple says... #1
The way regeneration works is that, when a regeneration ability is activated, a "regeneration shield" is formed that lasts until the end of turn or the creature is destroyed. If the creature with the regeneration shield would be destroyed, it is instead tapped and removed from combat. This means that the creature has to be dealt damage in the first place in order to be destroyed. The creature actually regenerates when state based actions are checked after combat, but you have to activate the ability before combat.
January 24, 2014 11:25 a.m.