question Deflecting Palm
Asked by sup3rskrull 9 years ago
If my opponent turn is in combat and he decided to swing for 4/4 creature. Can I Deflecting Palm him and not take damage and redirect 4 damage to him this turn?
sup3rskrull says... #2
Epochalyptik am I dealing damage to him immediately during his combat phase?
October 5, 2014 3:28 p.m.
You deal damage to him in his end of combat step. The chain of events is following: Your opponent declares his 4/4 (and other creatures he likes to attack with) as attackers, after that each player can cast instants or activate abilities. Ypu choose to cast Deflecting Palm . It resolves and you choose the 4/4 as the source of damage. Then you declare blockers. After that anybody can again cast instants or activate abilities. Then combat damage is dealt and the Deflecting Palm prevents the damage the 4/4 would to you any other attackers and blockers deal their combat damage normally. Since nobody gets priority during the combat damge step Deflecting Palm 's trigger will be put on the stack in the end of combat step after combaz damage is dealt. Note that if the 4/4 creature has first strike Deflecting Palm will deal damage before creatures without first strike deal combat damage.
October 5, 2014 3:55 p.m.
sup3rskrull says... #4
magicnerd0815 This is all happening at his turn in the same turn. Then why does it say the next turn on card?
October 5, 2014 4:41 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #5
"Next turn" is written nowhere on the card.
Deflecting Palm 's text is as follows (emphasis mine):
The next time a source of your choice would deal damage to you this turn, prevent that damage. If damage is prevented this way, Deflecting Palm deals that much damage to that source's controller.
Deflecting Palm sets up a prevention effect that applies at the next instance in which the chosen source would deal damage to you in the current turn. When the damage is prevented, Deflecting Palm immediately deals that much damage to the source's controller.
@magicnerd0815: You are incorrect.
First, players absolutely get priority during the combat damage step. They get priority after damage has been assigned and dealt, and any abilities that have triggered since the beginning of the combat damage step have been put onto the stack.
Second, Deflecting Palm is not worded such that it creates a delayed triggered ability. It deals damage immediately subsequent to the application of the prevention effect. This isn't a triggered ability, and it doesn't use the stack.
October 5, 2014 4:55 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #6
Just to be clear, if you're at 1 life, and your opponent is at 3 life, and they swing with their 4/4 and their 2/2, assuming you only Deflecting Palm the 4/4, and leave the 2/2 unblocked, you'll be reduced to 0 life (and thus lose) before your opponent, yes? Or would state based actions only be checked after both instances of damage have been done?
October 6, 2014 6:35 a.m.
Named_Tawyny In that case the game is a draw since all damage is dealt simultaneously and both players have their life total reduced to 0 or less before SBA:s are checked. So the next time priority would be received the game sees two players both at 0 or less life and both loose at the same time.
October 6, 2014 8:03 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
@Named_Tawyny: State-based actions are checked after combat damage is dealt. Because Deflecting Palm sets up a replacement effect, it applies while combat damage is being dealt, so both combat damage and Deflecting Palm 's damage will be dealt before SBAs are checked.
If Deflecting Palm 's return damage was based on a delayed triggered ability, then the ability would trigger during combat damage, but you would lose before you could put it onto the stack.
October 6, 2014 11 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #9
Thanks. I got a bit confused by your use of the term subsequent.
October 6, 2014 6:20 p.m.
xworkoutxfiendx says... #10
I didnt think deflecting palm 'targeted'. All it says is choose a source of damage like combat or non combat so if the opponent attacked with multiple monsters they would all get redirected.
December 28, 2014 9:38 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #11
It doesn't target. But a 'source' is exactly that, one source. So one monster (actually, even more specifically than that, one monster once. So if it had double-strike, you'd only prevent the first strike damage), one spell, one activated ability, etc...
'Combat' is not a source of damage, it's a series of phases leading up to a phase where damage gets dealt.
December 28, 2014 9:44 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #12
@xworkoutxfiendx & Named_Tawyny: A source is any object, whether it's a creature, spell, etc. As Named_Tawyny said, combat is not a source of damage. However, Named_Tawyny is incorrect in saying that being a source counts the specific instances of damage. The only reason we count instances of damage is that most prevention effects specify that they apply to "the next time a source [of your choice] would deal damage."
December 28, 2014 1:52 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #13
Yeah, I should have been more clear on that I was only speaking about Deflecting Palm and not in general when I mentioned double-strike.
December 28, 2014 2:06 p.m.
Epochalyptik - You're a smart cookie.
So here's a question I can't find an answer to:
Can you effectively put multiple instances of Deflecting Palm on the stack and gain the full benefit?
For example: (No I didn't take this from the judge site)
In Ajani's game against Narset, Ajani declares Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger as an attacker. At the end of Ajani's Declare Attackers step, Narset casts Deflecting Palm, and maintaining priority, casts another Deflecting Palm.
I guess where I'm questioning it is if you have the DPalm at the top of the stack PREVENT the damage first, does the second one still have anything to prevent or would it fizzle and not hit Ajani back for double?
December 10, 2015 4:56 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #15
It wouldn't fizzle, but it also wouldn't do anything immediately. However, if - at some point later that turn, Ulamog attacks again, then it would still be active.
December 10, 2015 8:28 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #16
This thread is a year old. Please ask a new question next time.
Deflecting Palm creates a replacement effect that applies the next time damage would be dealt by the chosen source this turn. If one Deflecting Palm's replacement effect replaces the damage that a source would deal, the second Deflecting Palm's replacement effect won't be able to apply. It will instead wait until the next time the source would deal damage this turn. You don't get to prevent the same damage multiple times.
December 10, 2015 9:54 p.m.
That's what I thought. Just wanted to know if maybe Deflecting Palm could be stupid. Thank you.
And apologies - I was looking for answers via google search and it sent me to this thread. I didn't pay much attention to the date at the time.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #1
When Deflecting Palm resolves, you are asked to choose a source of damage. The next time the chosen source would deal damage to you, that damage is prevented, and Deflecting Palm deals that much damage to the source's controller. Note that this is NOT a redirection effect. The damage from the source is prevented, and Deflecting Palm deals that much damage afterward.
In this case, you would choose the 4/4 as your source of damage. Combat damage will be prevented, and Deflecting Palm will deal 4 damage to your opponent.
October 5, 2014 3:19 p.m.