Question about Upkeep and Energy Flux
Asked by Starch20 12 years ago
My opponent has 4 artifact lands on the board and they are tapped. he also has a two Arcbound Ravager s on the field as well as four other artifacts and 2 Disciple of the Vault s. I drop Energy Flux on my turn. my question is how his upkeep will play out. he gets to untap and then pay for two artifacts with the artifact lands for the turn because the untap step happens before the upkeep step or is it part of it? also the ability of Energy Flux goes on the stack so say he had a Krosan Grip and at the beginning of his turn he untaps his lands and uses them to play Krosan Grip destroying Energy Flux the ability will already still go on the stack and he must sacrifice his artifacts or can he even untap and use his lands to pay for Krosan Grip ?
hunter9000 says... #2
Untap does come before Upkeep, so he'll have his lands untapped for upkeep.
The triggered ability that Energy Flux gives his artifacts triggers at the beginning of the upkeep step, before any player gets priority in that step. So even if he casts Krosan Grip , the abilities will already be on the stack, and he'll still have to pay 2 or sacrifice them. He is able to respond to the triggered abilities before any of them resolve however, so he can sacrifice the ones he can't pay for to Arcbound Ravager instead.
October 31, 2012 11:30 p.m.
Zen_Toombs says... Accepted answer #3
Several questions here, so I'll answer them one at a time.
First off, the steps go "Untap Step" "Upkeep Step" and "Draw Step". However, no player receives priority during the "Untap step", so there is no time after the "Untap step" to do anything before "at the beginning of your upkeep" triggers like Energy Flux go on the stack. This means that Krosan Grip cannot be used to prevent the upkeep triggers given to your artifacts by Energy Flux from triggering.
How your opponent's turn would play out: He enters his "Untap step" and untaps all of his permanents.
He enters his "Upkeep step". At the beginning of his "Upkeep step" each of his artifacts put "sacrifice this artifact unless you pay (2)" on to the stack. He chooses the order that these abilities go on the stack.
He may now do a number of things - he could use his untapped lands to cast Krosan Grip , but that would not stop his artifacts from being sacrificed. He can also put the Arcbound Ravager "sacrifice unless you pay (2)" ability on the stack last, so that you could pay (2) for each of his Arcbound Ravager s, and then sacrifice the artifact lands to Arcbound Ravager before the "sacrifice unless you pay (2)" ability resolves for his lands.
November 1, 2012 2:03 a.m.
I'd be interested in seeing the whole board and life totals...just from his 10 artifacts all dying you'd take 20 damage it seems. But ya he should be able to save 2 at least - not sure how many non-artifact lands he has or non-land permanents producing mana. Sac the rest to an arcbound ravager. Depending what the other artifact creatures he has, 1 might be worth saving and passing +1/+1 counters to. So he could sac 7 artifacts to a ravager, then sac that ravager with his other ravager and pass at least those 8 +1/+1 counters to another artifact creature.
Hence, I'm curious at the full board state.
But as everyone said:
502.3. No player receives priority during the untap step, so no spells can be cast or resolve and no abilities can be activated or resolve. Any ability that triggers during this step will be held until the next time a player would receive priority, which is usually during the upkeep step. (See rule 503, Upkeep Step.)
503 Upkeep Step
503.1. First, any abilities that trigger at the beginning of the upkeep step and any abilities that triggered during the turns untap step go on the stack. (See rule 603, Handling Triggered Abilities.)
So he really doesn't have an option for preventing Energy Flux in this scenario
GreatSword says... #1
The first 3 turns of the phases are Untap, Upkeep, Draw.
When an effect goes on the stack, players receive priority to respond to it. Your opponent will be able to cast Krosan Grip with his artifact lands before the Energy Flux triggers resolve. Afterwords he'll still have to deal with the triggers of course still.
October 31, 2012 11:27 p.m.