Patron of the Vein + Grave Betrayal
Asked by Harnellas 7 years ago
How much value could one squeeze out of casting Patron of the Vein with Grave Betrayal out?
I'm wondering if I can still return an opponent's creature to the battlefield under my control from Betrayal after exiling it to get the +1/+1 counter on Patron, but my guess is that Betrayal would fail to find the creature in the expected zone (opponent's graveyard) and the delayed trigger would fizzle. Not sure if the exile would affect it though, since it's not a replacement effect.
When a creature an opponent controls dies, both abilities will trigger (neither are replacement effects, so you don't need to worry about that). You get to choose the order the triggers get put onto the stack as you control both, so you can put Grave Betrayal on top and get the creature onto your side, then resolve Patron of the Vein to get the +1/+1 counter, though Patron will fail to find the creature to actually exile the card.
October 17, 2017 2:15 a.m.
Yeah I figured since they're both triggers I could choose which resolved first, but I wasn't sure how it would work since they're both mandatory triggers and Grave Betrayal's sets up a delayed effect. Are you sure Neotrup that even if I choose to resolve Betrayal first, I won't be required to exile the creature when Patron's resolves and finds it still in the graveyard? Also, does it even matter if the creature is in exile when betrayal resovles? It doesn't specify to return it from the graveyard.
This is a pretty confusing interaction, but Pieguy396I think you might be off track here as both abilities only trigger after something dies, including the exile effect itself. There's no replacement effect here to override a creature dying.
October 17, 2017 2:49 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #4
You won't be able to do both. Patron of the Vein exiles the card as the triggered ability resolves but Grave Betrayal sets up a delayed trigger that won't try to return the creature to the battlefield until the beginning of the end step. No matter what order you put the triggers onto the stack, the card will be in exile long before Grave Betrayal tries to look for it again. It will only look in the graveyard, since that's the first public zone the object moved to as it triggered the ability. The card won't be returned to the battlefield from exile.
October 17, 2017 10:15 a.m.
Oops, I didn't notice that Grave Betrayal set up a delayed triggered ability instead of returning the creature on resolution. Rhadamanthus is correct, as my answer was based on the ability returning the creature right away instead of much later as it actually does.
October 17, 2017 10:30 a.m.
Ah, you're right, Harnellas. I thought there was a replacement effect. It's actually the fact that Grave Betrayal is a delayed trigger that prevents the interaction from working.
Pieguy396 says... #1
No, you can't. "Dies" means "is put into a graveyard from the battlefield", so something being exiled means that it doesn't "die". Sorry :(
October 17, 2017 1:59 a.m.