Living Weapon and P/T checks
Asked by Maxy55555 13 years ago
Does the germ generated by living weapon have enough time to get recognized by a P/T checking card (say, Mentor of the Meek , thus allowing a payment of 1)?
If not, would the reverse happen? Say a Flayer Husk entered the battlefield while Sigil Captain was also out, would the germ get two +1/+1 counters?
I'm pretty sure it's the first and not the second, but I'm a little hazy on living weapon cards.
Rhadamanthus says... #2
Epochalyptik is right, but I'd like to add something worth knowing:
The reason Mentor of the Meek and Sigil Captain work differently is because the Captain's triggered ability is written with an "intervening if clause". If a triggered ability is written out as "Whenever (event), if (condition), (effect)", like the Captain, then it checks the condition once at the time of the triggering event and again when the ability would start to resolve. If the condition isn't true during the first check, the ability doesn't trigger at all. If the condition isn't true during the second check, then the ability does nothing when it resolves.
October 18, 2011 5:38 p.m.
mozerdozer says... #3
The creature does not ETB as a 1/1, thus I do not think Sigil Captain's ability will work. It is true that a triggered ability waits to be put onto the stack until the currently resolving ability finishes resolving, but it still sees that the token ETBs as 0/0 not 1/1.
October 18, 2011 5:41 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #4
mozerdozer is actually right about the Captain. I didn't read Epochalyptik's answer closely enough. As I said in my clarification, Sigil Captain wouldn't trigger at all, because the condition is false at the time of the triggering event.
October 18, 2011 5:43 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #5
The Oracle ruling for Sigil Captain .
5/1/2009: Sigil Captain's ability has an "intervening 'if' clause." That means (1) the ability won't trigger at all unless the creature that enters the battlefield under your control is 1/1, and (2) the ability will do nothing unless that creature is still 1/1 at the time the ability resolves.
Both Rhadamanthus and mozerdozer are correct; Sigil Captain's ability would not trigger for the 0/0 Germ token.
October 18, 2011 6:07 p.m.
mozerdozer says... #6
Unless it had a lord effect, such as Glorious Anthem on it.
October 18, 2011 8:20 p.m.
KorApprentice says... #7
@mozerdozer, I thought global effects were applied after ETB triggers?
October 19, 2011 11:12 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
Global effects are never "applied at a certain time." They are always active. A creature that would be affected by a global effect enters the battlefield already reflecting that change.
October 19, 2011 12:14 p.m.
KorApprentice says... #9
Alright, thank you Epochalyptik. For other's reference, I have found the rule that deals with this situation. From the MTG Comprehensive Rulebook:
"611.3c Continuous effects that modify characteristics of permanents do so simultaneously with the permanent entering the battlefield. They dont wait until the permanent is on the battlefield and then change it. Because such effects apply as the permanent enters the battlefield, they are applied before determining whether the permanent will cause an ability to trigger when it enters the battlefield.
Example: A permanent with the static ability All white creatures get +1/+1 is on the battlefield. A creature spell that would normally create a 1/1 white creature insteadcreates a 2/2 white creature. The creature doesnt enter the battlefield as 1/1 and thenchange to 2/2."
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #1
The Germ token enters the battlefield as a 0/0, and then the equipment is attached to it. Therefore, a creature with a power of 2 or less did enter the battlefield under your control, and your Mentor of the Meek 's ability will trigger.
702.90a Living weapon is a triggered ability. "Living weapon" means "When this Equipment enters the battlefield, put a 0/0 black Germ creature token onto the battlefield, then attach this Equipment to it."
For the second example, Sigil Captain 's ability would check the P/T of the creature in question when the ability resolves. If the creature is a 1/1 on resolution of the ability, then it will get the counters.
October 18, 2011 3:23 p.m.