Is Master of cruelties and Kaalia a quick win?
Asked by HumanofMassDestruction 12 years ago
For those of you that don't know, this was spoiled today.
I have seen a few people say that he enables an easy win with Kaalia of the Vast . The thought is that if you swing with kaalia and put him into play tapped and attacking, if the opponent doesnt block his trigger will go off making the opponents life one, and then kaalia hits for two.
As I have a Kaalia of the Vast Edh, I am interested to know if this would work. My friends problem is that his ability is worded "when Master of Cruelties attacks and isn't blocked", making it look like an attack trigger. If he is right, the ability doesn't enable a quick win.
I was wondering if a rules guru could help me out and explain what happens in detail.
Actually, more correctly, it's reduction ability won't happen until the declare blockers step when it checks to see if it was blocked, but it will won't work with Kaalia, because he needs to both attack AND be not blocked, and in this case, he might be not blocked, but he still didn't attack.
April 9, 2013 7:39 p.m.
HumanofMassDestruction says... #3
So the ability checks twice? Once when he is declared as an attacker AND when he goes unblocked? I didn't think you could do that over multiple phases.
April 9, 2013 7:39 p.m.
I think it only checks once, if it is unblocked, whether "Attacks and isn't blocked" was true.
April 9, 2013 7:40 p.m.
Some abilities do check twice. Evolve, for instance, checks once when a creature enters the battlefield, and only triggers when the condition is met. It then checks again when it actually resolves to make sure the condition is still met. Master of Cruelties's ability could be similar, in that it would check first to see if he was declared as an attacker (he wouldn't be with Kaalia), and then check again in the Declare Blockers step to see if he was blocked.
Regardless, Kaalia + Master of Cruelties is not a quick win. It's still a quick way to get the Master on the battlefield, though.
April 9, 2013 8:55 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #7
This trick works just fine. The term "attacks and isn't blocked" actually has its own Glossary entry in the Comprehensive Rules:
Attacks and Isn't Blocked
An ability that triggers when a creature "attacks and isn't blocked" triggers when the creature becomes an unblocked attacking creature. See rule 509.1h.
Whether or not Master of Cruelties was declared as an attacker doesn't matter in this situation. Because Kaalia of the Vast puts him onto the battlefield tapped and attacking, if no blockers are declared for him then he'll be an unblocked attacking creature and his ability will trigger.
April 9, 2013 10:06 p.m.
I'm gonna go ahead and assume that Master of Cruelties + any burn spell, will be a really annoying way to lose games.
April 10, 2013 4:40 a.m.
So Kaalia of the Vast overrides the rule that Master of Cruelties can only attack alone?
April 10, 2013 2:22 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #14
Attacking restrictions like the ability on Master of Cruelties only matter when you're declaring attackers. An effect that puts the creature directly onto the battlefield attacking (like Kaalia of the Vast ) doesn't care about it. In fact, it's even perfectly legal to put a creature with defender onto the battlefield attacking when using an effect that does that.
April 10, 2013 2:40 p.m.
http://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips/2013/08/kaalia-of-the-vast-and-master-of-cruelties-yes-it-works/
August 13, 2014 3:51 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #17
Please note the timestamps when responding to a topic. This was settled well over a year ago.
August 13, 2014 3:59 p.m.
JamminDecks13 says... #18
It is not a quick win
Check the rulings here:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=338444
"The creature card is already tapped and attacking as it's put onto the battlefield. Any abilities that trigger when a creature becomes tapped or when a creature attacks won't trigger for that card."
March 23, 2015 2:18 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #19
The triggered ability on Master of Cruelties doesn't trigger when it attacks. It triggers when it becomes an unblocked attacking creature, as described in the quotation from the Glossary of the Comprehensive Rules given in the Accepted Answer. The rules about this interaction haven't changed in the 2 years since the question was first settled.
Devonin says... #1
"The creature card is already tapped and attacking as it's put onto the battlefield. Any abilities that trigger when a creature becomes tapped or when a creature attacks won't trigger for that card."
The Master's life reduction ability happens when he attacks. With Kaalia, he doesn't attack, he just is put into play attacking.
He's still a first-striking deathtoucher though, which isn't shabby.
April 9, 2013 7:36 p.m.