If Jace's FateSeal is on the sack, can I kill him with a Lightning Bolt with the Fateseal on stack?
Asked by Kurzucik 14 years ago
I was wondering if my opponent casts Jace, The Mind Sculptor and then immediately fate seal, can I kill the Jace with a Lightning Bolt with the fate seal on the stack or are planeswalkers' abilities never stacked?
doinitwrong says... #2
Fateseal is Jace's +2, and no, adding the 2 counters is the cost paid, so he gets those before you can respond.
January 24, 2011 4:01 p.m.
π_is_the_word says... #3
The ability triggers and Jace gets the counters, then your able to bolt the jace in response to his ability. If your opponent had done something before using jace you could have responded to that action by bolting their jace. But, if they fate seal with jace and you want to bolt him you must wait for priority.
I had this situation come up at a Sunday Tournament, I was playing my U/B Control deck against Valakut. I played Jace and my opponent(who I consider to be the most disrespect person I have ever had the displeasure of playing against) said "after you play Jace I will use Lightning Bolt on him." I said to him "you don't have priority." He said I know, but I'm bolting him when I next get Priority. So, I fate sealed his jerk @s and won both games.
January 24, 2011 4:26 p.m.
theemptyquiver says... #4
lol @ post.
It makes it seem like one Planeswalker ability gave you the two wins.
January 24, 2011 4:39 p.m.
π_is_the_word says... #5
@Leafs_suck If the ability is activated like Jace's Zero ability or -1 ability and Jace is Lightning Bolt ed in response to the ability the control of Jace still gets to use that ability. Jace is however, put into the graveyard before the resolution is done.
"608.2j If an instant spell, sorcery spell, or ability that can legally resolve leaves the stack once it starts to resolve, it will continue to resolve fully."
I think this is the correct rule for explaining this situation.
January 24, 2011 4:44 p.m.
π_is_the_word says... #6
So, when you state that his zero ability or -1 ability would be counter you are incorrect. Because the counter is removed as part of the cost. Which you cannot respond to, so the -1 loyalty cost is paid before you can Lightning Bolt .
January 24, 2011 4:47 p.m.
Not entirely. I was under the impression that once Jace was put into the graveyard from having 0 counters on him, a card's ability can't resolve if the card is in the graveyard.
January 24, 2011 4:51 p.m.
π_is_the_word says... #8
No, his ability is separate from him because the cost was already paid, so since it was not Stifle d, his ability still resolves.
January 24, 2011 4:58 p.m.
606.3. A player may activate a loyalty ability of a permanent he or she controls any time he or she has priority and the stack is empty during a main phase of his or her turn, but only if no player has previously activated a loyalty ability of that permanent that turn.
606.4. The cost to activate a loyalty ability of a permanent is to put on or remove from that permanent a certain number of loyalty counters, as shown by the loyalty symbol in the abilitys cost.
602.2a The player announces that he or she is activating the ability. If an activated ability is being activated from a hidden zone, the card that has that ability is revealed. That ability is created on the stack as an object thats not a card.
It is similar in the way that you can sacrifice Throne of Geth for itself. The card may be in the graveyard, but the ability is still on the stack.
January 24, 2011 5:10 p.m.
π_is_the_word says... #11
Yeah, I thought of quoting those rules, but I'm still learning how to quote rules. I didn't want to miss interpret the rules and get fussed at.
Deco_y says... Accepted answer #1
jace, the mind sculptor
Okay, I have no idea what fate seel is but there is only 3 ways you can kill Jace with a bolt.
First, when Jace lands on the field, you have the option to counter him as a spell coming onto the field. If you do not, he resolves and comes onto the field. When you don't counter Jace, active priority is passed to your opponent.
You cannot cast Lightning Bolt until he says what he is going to do next. If he activates the +2 ability to look at the card on a library, he gains the 2 counters and his ability goes on the stack. The 2 loyalty counters act like a normal card's mana cost: You need to put 2 loyalty counters on Jace to "cast" his ability. Those 2 counters are placed on Jace no matter what you do or counter. If you bolt him after he does his +2, then Jace will still have 2 counters, survive, and your OP can look at the card.
If your opponent delcares he is activating the 0 or -1 ability: If you bolt him, his loyalty counters will be at 0 or less and he will be put into the graveyard before either of his abilities can be activated.
If your opponent does something else that doesn't even involve Jace, if you bolt him, he will die. Your opponent needs to activate the Planeswalker ability at sorcery speed, so he cannot activate Jace's +2 ability in response to your bolt.
Hope this helps.
January 24, 2011 3:52 p.m.