How hidden strings cipher works exactly?
Asked by BaBaBLaCkSHeeT 11 years ago
I have a few questions that I'll tie up into one bigger one with a scenario. An explanation of any would be appreciated thanks in advance!
Scenario:
Turn 1: Play an island, tap 1 mana summon [judge's familiar]Turn 2*: Play island, tap two mana play [hidden strings], untapped two islands, tap two play [hidden strings], untap two islands again. cipher both sorcereies onto [judge,a familiar], prior to attacking tap two islands to add two to mana pool, opponent controls no flyers takes damage, using double ciphered I'm allowed to tap/untap four permanents.
(Tap and untap all islands resulting in 6 total mana in pool two from prior to attacking and four as a result of cipher) using this six mana to summon a six drop creature on turn 2.
Naturally things that sounds too good to be true are so this arises questions and before dumping this combo that's possibly illegal on my buddies naturally they'll just auto say no way not possible. So if like reasons why it would work/perhaps partially correct, or why it cannot.
*Question 1) can I tap two mana then use the [hidden strings] affect to untap the two mana used for the spell? Essentially this spell is then theoretically "free to play"?
**Question 2) if you cipher into a creature is not affected by summoning sickness ie. a one drop played on turn 1. And is able to directly attack a player , may I use the ability virtually "again" and resuming a two drop on end main phase?
***Question 3) Mana burn is no longer around I believe, therefore, are you allowed to tap lands for mana to add to your pool for what would appear for no reason but due to cipher, or perhaps even [voyaging satyr] which would allow you then to have extra mana from a single land? This net resulting in using this affect to gain strong drops faster.
Question 4) mana fizzles at end of entire turn phase or each phase making this affect only work for perhaps [voyaging satyr] and the initial play of [hidden strings]; but not the stacking?
Question 5) Am I interpreting cipher correctly based on example, and am I allowed to double cipher a single target creature?
I know I'm asking a lot hopefully their clear questions!
BaBaBLaCkSHeeT says... #2
@greatsword: thank you for the reply, however, however kinda confused about the one reply in regards to question 4.
When does mana drain for your pool exactly?
If I'm allowed to double tap/untap to add to pool, can I then play a for drop on turn 2? But not allowed to use previously tapped for a six drop?
December 9, 2013 1:40 a.m.
GreatSword says... #3
As I said above, mana drains from players' pool when the game moved onto the next step/phase of the turn. Hidden Strings doesn't effectively ramp your mana by itself.
Cipher triggers from combat damage, so you'll cast a Hidden Strings in your combat damage step. If you don't use the mana before the end of the step, it will drain from your pool.
December 9, 2013 2:07 a.m.
BaBaBLaCkSHeeT says... #4
Greatsword Okay so one last final fine print step to ensure I play this right!
I believe I get your point I can't ramp off of it, however, if it activates during my combat damage step. Can't I only plat instants at this point?
I may be completely wrong but unless my creature has flash, by my technical second main step I will only have the original two mana I was allowed to untap, so I won't be able to have four in my pool from attacking with a double encoded creature?
Or am I allowed to tap/untap two mana for a total of four and use this to cast a creature?
December 9, 2013 2:12 a.m.
GreatSword says... #5
Man you really want to break this card. It doesn't really do the things you want it to though.
Cipher doesn't activate, it triggers. Activated abilities are ones with a cost, like the 2nd ability of Boros Reckoner .
You're casting a copy per the triggered ability of cipher. This gets around the usual timing-restriction of sorceries.
Yes, if a creature has flash, you could get some value out of it. If you tap two lands with Hidden Strings on the stack, you could get 4 mana and cast a creature then.
GreatSword says... Accepted answer #1
Most of your assumptions are correct. Your biggest misconception though is that mana drains from each players' pool at the end of every step/phase of the turn. So no, you couldn't get a 6-mana spell out on turn 2 with your above scenario.
Yes, that's correct.
Yes, you can cast the ciphered spell twice, effectively.
Yes, you can use mana abilities at any time you have priority; not just when you are paying for spells.
See above.
Yes, there's no limit to the amount of spells a creature may have encoded on it.
December 9, 2013 1:30 a.m.