Does the game end The instant a players life is zero? Combo Question
Asked by Comfordor 9 years ago
I was deck brewing and came across a jank combo. Arcbond + Deflecting Palm + Zada, Hedron Grinder + burn or combat damage.
If I cast Arcbond onto Zada, Hedron Grinder, hypothetically it is enough to deal lethal to both players, if I cast Deflecting Palm, would the damage be prevented and allow me to win the game (ie me = 20 opponent = 0). Or would the spell need to resolve resulting in a draw?
My main question is, at what stage/step/phase/instant would the game end?
A secondary question, in the above scenario, would each Arcbond trigger at the same time, or stack on top of each other.
Many thanks from a casual player! =]
Cheers BlueScope!
Yes that has cleared it up. I thought that might be the case.
Arcbond = triggered and deflecting Palm = null&void lol.
Looks like I'll have to cast Tandem Tactics or something similar to make this jank combo work
Cheers bud!
January 28, 2016 5:32 a.m.
I kind of left out something important - think of this block of text as an addendum to the second paragraph above:
Because Deflecting Palm's effect isn't a triggered ability but a replacement effect, it doesn't use the stack or resolves in any way - instead, it changes the way the original event (the resolution of a burn spell, or combat damage) will be dealt. So, nothing needs to "finish resolving", unless maybe the burn spell.
But I think I just figured out what you were asking in the first place: If you cast Arcbond on Zada (and for the sake of this example, control no other creatures), then attack, get blocked by a 8/8 which threatens to deal 8 damage to Zada. Before combat damage, you cast Deflecting Palm, and upon it's resolution, you choose Zada as the creature to prevent damage from.
If that was your question, then you will be happy to hear that your opponent gets dealt 16 damage (8 from Zada, 8 from Delfecting Palm - both at the same time, which is when the triggered ability created by Arcbond resolves) and you get 0 damage. Because you never get dealt damage at all, you're in no danger of losing the game in the first place.
In the same example, if you wouldn't have cast Deflecting Palm, both players would've gotten dealt 8 damage from Zada and - if that would put both players to 0 or less life - they would both lose the game as a state-based action when the active player would receive priority after Arcbond's triggered ability finished resolving, and the game would end in a draw.
January 28, 2016 5:43 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #4
@BlueScope: Your addendum isn't accurate. Deflecting Palm specifically says it deals the damage back to that source's controller, so using Deflecting Palm on a source you control accomplishes nothing. In that situation Deflecting Palm would replace the damage event by preventing the source's damage... and dealing you the exact same amount of damage. I think part of the original question was whether there was a moment of time between Deflecting Palm preventing the damage and re-dealing it where the opponent could lose the game, and your previous response covered it.
January 28, 2016 12:54 p.m.
@Rhadamanthus: Yeah, true, no idea what I was thinking with that - I even wrote it a couple of posts above myself >_< Thanks for the correction!
January 28, 2016 4:44 p.m.
Rhadamanthus that's what I meant with deflecting Palm.
Cheers buds!
BlueScope says... Accepted answer #1
First of all, damage is dealt the instant something deals it, resulting in a change in the player's life total. A player loses the game for having 0 or less life as a state-based action (completely independant from steps or phases), and those are checked every time a player would receive priority.
Your spells work different from each other: Arcbond creates a triggered ability that triggers when the creature deals damage. Deflecting Palm creates a replacement effect that changes how damage is dealt to you (in this case, not at all) and will additionally deal damage to the controller of the damage's source.
Now, what I'm missing is the part where this combo starts to give you an advantage, as Zada only copies spells for creatures you control, and casting Deflecting Palm on one of your own creatures won't help you at all, as you'll prevent the damage a certain creature would deal while getting the same damage from Deflecting Palm itself. Also, note that Deflecting Palm doesn't target, so you won't be able to copy it with Zada if you choose Zada as the creature to prevent damage from.
I hope this helps!
January 28, 2016 5:21 a.m.