Does Scion of the Ur-Dragon's ability depend on weither or not the creature is actually placed into the graveyard?
Asked by Ohthenoises 12 years ago
For example: I have Tamiyo, the Moon Sage 's emblem and I go to activate Scion of the Ur-Dragon 's ability. The card is tutored for then goes to be pitched but then the replacement effect kicks in and sends it to my hand. Does Scion of the Ur-Dragon still become a copy? Or does the fact that the creature never hit the graveyard make it so he is now just a glorified tutor on a stick?
tamiyo say put ion graveyard from anywhere means from hand deck exile battlefield so yes if you have the emblem you have the option of putting it in your hand when it hits the grave.
June 27, 2012 3:50 p.m.
I would think not since Scion says "... then put it into your graveyard. If you do..."
But then I'm not particularly keen on replacement effects and whatnot. So what I'm actually saying is "I don't know".
June 27, 2012 3:55 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #4
@Sagi007 Not what I was asking.I know the card will go to my hand. What I'm asking is: Will the Scion of the Ur-Dragon copy that creature or not?
June 27, 2012 3:57 p.m.
Typically, the "If you do" clause is a requirement for things of that nature.
June 27, 2012 4:08 p.m.
Sorrowdeth says... Accepted answer #6
i might be overthinking this, but doesnt her emblem technicaly bounce the card from your graveyard, since it says 'whenever a card is put into your graveyard, you may return it to your hand.' i think it is a trigered ability, not a replacement effect
June 27, 2012 4:13 p.m.
But will it still count if the card wouldbe put into the graveyard but is put somewhere else due to a replacement effect?
Technically, he completed the action of sending it to his graveyard and Tamiyo just put it into his hand. I would think, now, that Scion would still become the copy.
But I would wait for the official word from a Rules Guru, like squire1 or Rhadamanthus.
June 27, 2012 4:15 p.m.
... Oh. Sorrowdeth is right.
I was thinking this whole time that Tamiyo added a replacement effect and, instead of cards going to your graveyard, just went to back to your hand in lieu of that.
Since the card goes to the graveyard, then yes. Even with Tamiyo's Emblem, Scion still becomes the copy.
June 27, 2012 4:17 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #9
Think she's a good addition to Scion of the Ur-Dragon decks lol.
June 27, 2012 4:19 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #11
Even if you were dealing with a replacement effect, like Wheel of Sun and Moon for example, Scion of the Ur-Dragon would still shapeshift into whatever dragon you searched out. It's hard to explain why without essentially re-writing the rule that covers it, so I'll just give you the rule that covers it:
117.12. Some spells, activated abilities, and triggered abilities read, "[Do something]. If [a player] [does or doesn't], [effect]." or "[A player] may [do something]. If [that player] [does or doesn't], [effect]." The action [do something] is a cost, paid when the spell or ability resolves. The "If [a player] [does or doesn't]" clause checks whether the player chose to pay an optional cost or started to pay a mandatory cost, regardless of what events actually occurred.
So because you did start to pay the mandatory cost of "Search your library for a Dragon creature card and put it into your graveyard" created during the resolution of the ability, the "If you do" check comes back True, even though the replacement effect changed the final outcome of your action.
But yeah, the emblem for Tamiyo, the Moon Sage has a triggered ability, not a replacement effect ability.
June 27, 2012 5:03 p.m.
You're thinking too hard :)
The ability of Scion of the Ur-Dragon doesn't say:
"~ is a copy of the creature until end of turn as long as it is in the graveyard".
The ability never requires the creature to go to the graveyard. As long as it doesn't have a clause like the one stated, it will work whether or not the creature ever went into the GY. Especially with Tamiyo's triggered ability, there's nothing to worry about.
Ohthenoises says... #1
Spelling is hard: *whether.
June 27, 2012 3:44 p.m.