Does non-lethal damage to a creature affect trample damage?
Asked by BrownDog5117 13 years ago
Here's the situation. My buddy Pyroclasm ed mainphase 1, then attacked me after casting Triumph of the Hordes . I have a Thrun, the Last Troll and block one of his guys.
I understand how trample works, but my buddy is telling me that Pyroclasm makes Thrun a 4/2 until end of turn, so when I block his trample infect guys, more damage will go through.
I know that non-lethal damage stays on a creature until end of turn, but is my buddy right? or did he get a free 2 poison. I have a feeling that Thrun will stay a 4/4, but have 2 damage on him... not change his toughness...
i hope this question makes sense! haha
BrightGreenLine says... Accepted answer #2
You're right in that Thrun stays as a 4/4 even after Pyroclasm, and your friend is right in that 2 poison will trample over him. Damage marked against creatures does not modify their toughness, Wither and Infect work by replacing the damage as it's dealt with counters instead of marking damage. The rest is all in the rules for damage assignment in combat: He only needs to deal lethal damage to your blockers, and he can have the rest spill over onto you.
Let's say he has a 4/4 infect trample creature attacking: When the creature meets up with Thrun in combat, both of them have 2 damage already marked against them from the Pyroclasm. So, when he goes to assign damage to Thrun, he has to assign exactly enough damage to kill Thrun, including any damage already marked on the creature. In this case, his 4/4 will assign 2 damage to Thrun and 2 to you, perfectly satisfying the rules. The 2 already marked against Thrun + the 2 infect damage = 4, which is Thrun's toughness.
You can regenerate Thrun in this case, and you'll have a 2/2 troll after combat. If he wants to kill Thrun to where you can't regenerate he'd have to deal 4 damage, but then you wouldn't take any infect damage from that attacker.
Here are the relevant rules, take note of the italics:
510.1c. A blocked creature assigns its combat damage to the creatures blocking it. If no creatures are currently blocking it (if, for example, they were destroyed or removed from combat), it assigns no combat damage. If exactly one creature is blocking it, it assigns all its combat damage to that creature. If two or more creatures are blocking it, it assigns its combat damage to those creatures according to the damage assignment order announced for it. This may allow the blocked creature to divide its combat damage. However, it can't assign combat damage to a creature that's blocking it unless each creature that precedes that blocking creature in its order is assigned lethal damage. When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on the creature and damage from other creatures that's being assigned during the same combat damage step, but not any abilities or effects that might change the amount of damage that's actually dealt. An amount of damage that's greater than a creature's lethal damage may be assigned to it.
June 16, 2011 9:26 p.m.
xxxxxxCronoxxxxxx says... #3
creature with trample can only assign lethal damage to a creature if there is any damage left it goes to the next creature and or the player
thrun stays a 4/4 the entier time but because he took 2 from pyroclasum he can only block 2 damage before takeing lethal damage and gets trampled over, but you can regenerat him and he will be a 2/2 because of the infect damage he took
if he didnt do pyroclasum you could regenerate him but he would still be a 0/0 because of infect
June 17, 2011 2:47 p.m.
danse_macabre says... #4
The rules on Thrun, the Last Troll state that "Thrun can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control", so Pyroclasm does not affect him. This means that Thrun remains 4/4 after Pryoclasm was cast.
June 19, 2011 9:45 a.m.
BrightGreenLine says... #5
Incorrect. Pyroclasm doesn't target, so it can easily hit Thrun.
Demarge says... #1
Your Thrun, the Last Troll would still be a 4/4, but the creature with trample only has to do 2 damage to him and then the rest would go over.
June 16, 2011 9:12 p.m.