Does Nim Deathmantle and other such effects save mana stored by Omnath, Locus of Mana from being dispelled?
Asked by cybersaint2k 12 years ago
A trial Omnath, Locus of Mana EDH deck has uncovered a question. If that card dies and goes into either the commander zone or the graveyard, does the stored mana disappear if it is brought back before end of turn?
This could be done with Nim Deathmantle as in my deck, or with various graveyard retrievers or return to hand before graveyard and cast cards or simply replay from command zone.
The key question is about the language in the card--"green mana doesn't empty from your mana pool as steps and phases end."
Putting it another way:
If I attack and he Rebuke s me, do I then keep the mana in the pool to do all sorts of shenanigans or am I stuck with untapped lands?
Thank you.
GoblinsInc says... #2
A trial Omnath, Locus of Mana EDH deck has uncovered a question. If that card dies and goes into either the commander zone or the graveyard, does the stored mana disappear if it is brought back before end of turn?Your mana pool empties at the end of each step and phase. If Omnath dies and goes to the command zone, the mana will remain until the current step or phase ends. So if they doomblade him during your main phase, you can indeed re-cast him from the command zone to keep the rest of the mana in your pool. But if you attack and they doomblade him during combat, usually you will not be able to cast him in time to save the mana.
If I attack and he Rebukes me, do I then keep the mana in the pool to do all sorts of shenanigans or am I stuck with untapped lands? You won't normally be able to cast him during the declare attackers step, so you'll end up being stuck with your lands and an empty pool.
June 30, 2012 2:05 p.m.
cybersaint2k says... #3
Thanks so far. Let's look at this--
A. Beginning phase (as I untap, Omnath is doom bladed. I can't cast spells until my first main phase. Mana pool empties.)B. First main phase (As I do something, Omnath is Terminate d. He can be recast. Mana pool protected.]C. Combat phase and steps (I'm confused at this point.) c.1 Beginning of combat c.2 Declare attackers (if Rebuke d, then I can't recast at this point, dead, but Nim Deathmantle doesn't involve casting, so doesn't it stay? Or if I'm forced to sac by a blocker, doesn't Nim fix it?) c.3 Declare blockers c.4 Combat damage (If combat damage kills Omnath, then Nim Deathmantle brings him back automatically without action on my part, does mana stay?) c.5 End of combat D. Second main phase (If I have to sac something in this phase or if damage was partially dealt then Lightning! or finishes Omnath off, I think I can recast in main phase.E. Ending phase (casting allowed, I believe)
Each phase, mana empties. Sometimes he's dead and the mana goes away before you can cast again. But Nim Deathmantle saves the day in many cases, right?
June 30, 2012 2:48 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #4
Nim Deathmantle 's ability would have to resolve in the same step it triggered in, so if you use it to pull back Omnath, your mana stays where it is (well, except for the mana you spent on Deathmantle's ability, of course).
June 30, 2012 2:53 p.m.
GoblinsInc says... #5
Note that for deathmantle to trigger, you need to decline to send omnath to the command zone
Deathmantle will save the day in pretty much every case though, as it triggers during the step that the creature dies in, and if you pay the mana will return him that step.
It's only when you can't bring him back in the same step as Omnath died in that you are out of luck. And normally you cannot cast creatures during the end phase.
You seem a little unsure of the difference between steps and phases. The beginning, combat, and ending phases are all made up of "steps", which are just sections of the phase. But since mana pool empties during each step and phase, it means that mana produced in the upkeep will not remain to the draw step. Though both are part of the same phase, they are different steps.
June 30, 2012 3:04 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #6
alluren and the new elf legend form m13 are good ways to accomplish this as well.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #1
When Omnath isn't around, the game reverts back to the usual rules, which is that mana pools empty at the end of every step and phase. When Omnath dies, your pool doesn't suddenly empty for no reason. If you can get him back before the current step/phase ends, you get to keep the mana.
June 30, 2012 2:05 p.m.