Does having two Arcee triggers on the stack convert her twice?
Asked by Max_Hammer 1 year ago
Arcee, Acrobatic Coupe Flip will flip if I target her with a Infuriate, but if I target her with Infuriate and respond at instant speed with Expedite does she convert twice, getting two counters?
I'm pretty sure she can, but I want to double check anyway, so I don't embarrass myself with a misplay.
Can I make Arcee do backflips for extra value?
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #2
Arcee will get two +1/+1 counters but will only convert once. This is because of a specific exception written into the detailed rules for Convert, similar to an exception built into the detailed rules for Transform. If an ability of a permanent would cause it to convert/transform but it has already converted/transformed since that ability was created then it won't convert/transform again.
701.50e If an activated or triggered ability of a permanent that isn’t a delayed triggered ability of that permanent tries to convert it, the permanent does so only if it hasn’t converted or transformed since the ability was put onto the stack. If a delayed triggered ability of a permanent tries to convert that permanent, the permanent does so only if it hasn’t converted or transformed since that delayed triggered ability was created. In both cases, if the permanent has already transformed or converted, an instruction to do either is ignored.
March 9, 2023 8:35 a.m. Edited.
Max_Hammer says... #3
Huh, interesting. This rue is needlessly convoluted, but this MTG we're talking about, and it wouldn't be a WotC product if it weren't needlessly convoluted.
I'm going to assume that it's the same if I want to pay 1 into her, blow up a thing, and then pay 1 again to blow up another thing.
Counters are removing, things are damaged, and she flips to become a coupe as normal.
Thanks for the answer, Rhada!
Madcookie says... #1
The way I see it is as is:
You target Arcee, Acrobatic Coupe Flip with Infuriate, and trigger her ability which if this was Arena the trigger text would look like this "Put +1/+1 on this permanent. Convert this permanent". You respond to this by casting Expedite, which in turn creates essentially the same trigger. That trigger resolves first, you put a +1/+1 on Arcee, Acrobatic Coupe Flip and convert her to Arcee, Sharpshooter Flip, Expedite then resolves giving her haste and you draw a card, then the first trigger from Infuriate resolves, you put another +1/+1 counter on now technically Arcee, Sharpshooter Flip and once again convert her to her vehicle side Arcee, Acrobatic Coupe Flip and finally Infuriate resolves giving her +3/+2.
tl:dr She converts twice, gets two +1/+1 counters and finishes the interaction on the side she was initially.
March 8, 2023 3:13 p.m.