Does Gesit of Saint Traft+Sundial of the Infinite combo work?

Asked by pookypuppy6 13 years ago

So I have a Geist of Saint Traft and a Sundial of the Infinite . I attack with the geist, get a 4/4 Angel token, and at the end of the combat I end my turn with the sundial.

Can I save the angel this way? If so, will ending the combat affect damage calculation? (I am asking this evidently because I have no idea how the end of combat works :D)

rckclimber777 says... #1

Yes you can use sundial of the infinite to keep your angels

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/42a

This article describes the combat steps

They have a combat damage step, then the end of combat step.

So simply activate the sundial at the end of the combat damage step or beginning of the end of combat step and you will have a 4/4 angel.

Go back to the Aether! is my sundial abuse deck.

September 16, 2011 3:42 p.m.

the dial does not end the phase you activated it on

if the combat phase doesnt end then the "Exile that token at the end of combat." never happens

does that count as a triggered ability or just part of the effect? not that it realy matters in this situation

September 17, 2011 1:29 a.m.

Epochalyptik says... #3

The ability which exiles the token from Geist of Saint Traft is a delayed triggered ability which is set up by the effect that creates the token.

Combat has a few steps:

  • Beginning of combat
  • Declare attackers
  • Declare blockers
  • Combat damage (if first strike is involved, then an additional combat damage step is created specifically for it)
  • End of combat
The delayed triggered ability which exiles the token (note that it is not an inherent ability of the token, but rather an effect of the ability which created it) will go onto the stack during the End of Combat step. If you exile the trigger, then the token will stay on the battlefield.
September 17, 2011 3:23 a.m.

But i noticed that it simply says 'at end of combat' not 'the next end of combat' this difference is key in all sundial abuse, and since you cant use the sundial during your opponents turn, at the end of their combat, the token would disappear, right?

September 17, 2011 2:42 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #5

The answer to that depends on if the ability strictly refers to the end of the combat step in which the token was created (in which case the Sundial would allow you to keep the token indefinitely), or whether it creates a delayed triggered ability which triggers at the end of each combat step. I believe it is the first one, just looking at the wording.

September 17, 2011 2:49 p.m.

mafteechr says... #6

My suspicion is that Geist of Saint Traft 's triggered ability is similar to Putrefax 's triggered ability, meaning it triggers at every end of combat step.

I am putting this question before some judges for verification.

September 17, 2011 3:50 p.m.

mafteechr says... #7

After confirmation from a judge, Epochalyptik is correct.

The difference here is that the token doesn't have that triggered ability. Putrefax has a triggered sacrifice ability. The sacrifice on the token is tied to the ability that created it, and will only trigger once, just like Mimic Vat .

September 17, 2011 6:41 p.m.

now all that needs to happen is for them to put it in the oracle rules

September 18, 2011 3:59 a.m.

Dornith says... #9

Yes, it will work as long as you use sundial before the end of combat.

September 18, 2011 11:19 a.m.

as far as Mimic Vat it to specifically says 'next end step' personally im on the fence for it, but as a venser control lover i hope im wrong

September 18, 2011 2:43 p.m.

rckclimber777 says... #11

@ rebellion.march

The thing with that is that you allow the end step to occur and then activate the sundial before the token goes away. So the End step occurred, and the exiling of the token (the delayed trigger ability) gets exiled along with any other things that would happen during that end step due to the Sundial of the Infinite . Since the "next" end step occurred, the ability will not check for the end step again and thus the token stays on the field.

September 18, 2011 2:51 p.m.

511.0. End of combat

511.1. First, all "at end of combat" abilities trigger and go on the stack. (See rule 603, "Handling Triggered Abilities.")

603.7a Delayed triggered abilities come from spells or other abilities that create them on resolution, or are created as the result of a replacement effect being applied. That means a delayed triggered ability won't trigger until it has actually been created, even if its trigger event occurred just beforehand. Other events that happen earlier may make the trigger event impossible.Example: Part of an effect reads "When this creature leaves the battlefield," but the creature in question leaves the battlefield before the spell or ability creating the effect resolves. In this case, the delayed ability never triggers.Example: If an effect reads "When this creature becomes untapped" and the named creature becomes untapped before the effect resolves, the ability waits for the next time that creature untaps.

example 3 of the last rule subsection, leads me to believe that yes, the ability will trigger at every end of combat, because the ability waits for the next time it becoms triggered

September 19, 2011 4:05 p.m.

This discussion has been closed