Does Gesit of Saint Traft+Sundial of the Infinite combo work?
Asked by pookypuppy6 13 years ago
So I have a Geist of Saint Traft and a Sundial of the Infinite . I attack with the geist, get a 4/4 Angel token, and at the end of the combat I end my turn with the sundial.
Can I save the angel this way? If so, will ending the combat affect damage calculation? (I am asking this evidently because I have no idea how the end of combat works :D)
xxxxxxCronoxxxxxx says... #2
the dial does not end the phase you activated it on
if the combat phase doesnt end then the "Exile that token at the end of combat." never happens
does that count as a triggered ability or just part of the effect? not that it realy matters in this situation
September 17, 2011 1:29 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #3
The ability which exiles the token from Geist of Saint Traft is a delayed triggered ability which is set up by the effect that creates the token.
Combat has a few steps:
- Beginning of combat
- Declare attackers
- Declare blockers
- Combat damage (if first strike is involved, then an additional combat damage step is created specifically for it)
- End of combat
September 17, 2011 3:23 a.m.
rebellion.march says... #4
But i noticed that it simply says 'at end of combat' not 'the next end of combat' this difference is key in all sundial abuse, and since you cant use the sundial during your opponents turn, at the end of their combat, the token would disappear, right?
September 17, 2011 2:42 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #5
The answer to that depends on if the ability strictly refers to the end of the combat step in which the token was created (in which case the Sundial would allow you to keep the token indefinitely), or whether it creates a delayed triggered ability which triggers at the end of each combat step. I believe it is the first one, just looking at the wording.
September 17, 2011 2:49 p.m.
My suspicion is that Geist of Saint Traft 's triggered ability is similar to Putrefax 's triggered ability, meaning it triggers at every end of combat step.
I am putting this question before some judges for verification.
September 17, 2011 3:50 p.m.
After confirmation from a judge, Epochalyptik is correct.
The difference here is that the token doesn't have that triggered ability. Putrefax has a triggered sacrifice ability. The sacrifice on the token is tied to the ability that created it, and will only trigger once, just like Mimic Vat .
September 17, 2011 6:41 p.m.
xxxxxxCronoxxxxxx says... #8
now all that needs to happen is for them to put it in the oracle rules
September 18, 2011 3:59 a.m.
Yes, it will work as long as you use sundial before the end of combat.
September 18, 2011 11:19 a.m.
rebellion.march says... #10
as far as Mimic Vat it to specifically says 'next end step' personally im on the fence for it, but as a venser control lover i hope im wrong
September 18, 2011 2:43 p.m.
rckclimber777 says... #11
The thing with that is that you allow the end step to occur and then activate the sundial before the token goes away. So the End step occurred, and the exiling of the token (the delayed trigger ability) gets exiled along with any other things that would happen during that end step due to the Sundial of the Infinite . Since the "next" end step occurred, the ability will not check for the end step again and thus the token stays on the field.
September 18, 2011 2:51 p.m.
rebellion.march says... #12
511.0. End of combat
511.1. First, all "at end of combat" abilities trigger and go on the stack. (See rule 603, "Handling Triggered Abilities.")
603.7a Delayed triggered abilities come from spells or other abilities that create them on resolution, or are created as the result of a replacement effect being applied. That means a delayed triggered ability won't trigger until it has actually been created, even if its trigger event occurred just beforehand. Other events that happen earlier may make the trigger event impossible.Example: Part of an effect reads "When this creature leaves the battlefield," but the creature in question leaves the battlefield before the spell or ability creating the effect resolves. In this case, the delayed ability never triggers.Example: If an effect reads "When this creature becomes untapped" and the named creature becomes untapped before the effect resolves, the ability waits for the next time that creature untaps.
example 3 of the last rule subsection, leads me to believe that yes, the ability will trigger at every end of combat, because the ability waits for the next time it becoms triggered
rckclimber777 says... #1
Yes you can use sundial of the infinite to keep your angels
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/42a
This article describes the combat steps
They have a combat damage step, then the end of combat step.
So simply activate the sundial at the end of the combat damage step or beginning of the end of combat step and you will have a 4/4 angel.
Go back to the Aether! is my sundial abuse deck.
September 16, 2011 3:42 p.m.