Bitter ordeal+dredge.
Asked by BLEATH 12 years ago
Well, the question name says it all. Do permanents that I dredged earlier in the turn count for gravestorm on Bitter Ordeal ?
In that sense then, what about Primal Surge ? It never entered the battlefield, so how can you tell if it is a permanent?
September 23, 2012 12:51 a.m.
Here is the official wording for Gravestorm.
702.67a Gravestorm is a triggered ability that functions on the stack. "Gravestorm" means "When you cast this spell, put a copy of it onto the stack for each permanent that was put into a graveyard from battlefield this turn. If the spell has any targets, you may choose new targets for any of the copies."
September 23, 2012 12:54 a.m.
As well as a bit lengthier explanation on permanents and Primal Surge .
110.1. A permanent is a card or token on the battlefield. A permanent remains on the battlefield indefinitely. A card or token becomes a permanent as it enters the battlefield and it stops being a permanent as it's moved to another zone by an effect or rule.
110.2. A permanent's owner is the same as the owner of the card that represents it (unless it's a token; see rule 110.5a). A permanent's controller is, by default, the player under whose control it entered the battlefield. Every permanent has a controller.
110.2a If an effect instructs a player to put an object onto the battlefield, that object enters the battlefield under that player's control unless the effect states otherwise.
110.3. A nontoken permanent's characteristics are the same as those printed on its card, as modified by any continuous effects. See rule 613, "Interaction of Continuous Effects."
110.4. There are five permanent types: artifact, creature, enchantment, land, and planeswalker. Instant and sorcery cards can't enter the battlefield and thus can't be permanents. Some tribal cards can enter the battlefield and some can't, depending on their other card types.
September 23, 2012 12:57 a.m.
Primal Surge refers to permanent cards, while Bitter Ordeal 's Gravestorm refers to just permanents.
September 23, 2012 1 a.m.
Alright. Thank you guys. Just came across this and wondered how op it would be combo-ed with dredge.
September 23, 2012 1:33 a.m.
Actually have a deck built around Bitter Ordeal . Feel free to check out Dude, Where's My Library? and see if it gives you any ideas. :)
September 23, 2012 1:38 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #8
FYI, this is the key part that hasn't been explained yet:
If an effect uses the word "permanent" or the name of a specific permanent type ("creature", "land", etc.), and doesn't also use the word "card" or "spell" to describe it (like Primal Surge does, for example), then it only means a permanent on the battlefield. This is why the Gravestorm ability on Bitter Ordeal only counts permanents that have gone to the graveyard from the battlefield, not any other zone.
September 23, 2012 2:08 p.m.
This is true for Primal Surge , the same as other cards will refer to a specific card type. Like card:Descendants' Path for a creature "card" or Rampant Growth for a basic land "card".
Virlym says... #1
Permanents aren't cards. They are only the cards that have been played and stay on the battlefield. So no, Dredging would not add to your Gravestorm count.
September 23, 2012 12:35 a.m.