Archenemy Questions

Asked by cryptichorror 13 years ago

I just picked up one of the Archenemy decks, and had a couple of questions.

1. The rules say that schemes can be responded to. Does that mean that a player can cast something like Mana Leak or Cancel on a scheme? What is the point of being able to respond to a scheme?
2. The ongoing schemes aren't discarded until they are "abandoned". I know that they all have an abandon condition on them, but what happens on the next turn when a new scheme is drawn? Does the ongoing scheme stay out? Or do you not draw a new scheme as long as the ongoing scheme is out?
3. How many players is this meant for? I know on DotP, it is 3 vs 1. Can it work with 2 vs 1, or 4 vs 1? Do you need to tweak life totals or poison damage to compensate?

Thanks in advance. I'm actually looking forward to this variant.

GoblinsInc says... #1

1.The rules say that schemes can be responded to. Does that mean that a player can cast something like Mana Leak or Cancel on a scheme?

Most schemes have triggered abilities on them. Though the act of putting a scheme into motion doesn't use the stack, the triggered ability does.Though the ability is not a spell and so things like mana leak cannot target it (nor counter it). However things like stifle or voidslime work fine.

What is the point of being able to respond to a scheme?

You can counter it. Or say you are at 2 life and the scheme's ability would deal 3 damage to you, you could respond to it by casting something to gain you life and save you.

1. The ongoing schemes aren't discarded until they are "abandoned". I know that they all have an abandon condition on them, but what happens on the next turn when a new scheme is drawn?

You put the new scheme into motion.

Does the ongoing scheme stay out?

Yes. If nothing is telling you the scheme has ended then the scheme remains out.

Or do you not draw a new scheme as long as the ongoing scheme is out?

You continue drawing schemes/putting schemes into motion.

1. How many players is this meant for? I know on DotP, it is 3 vs 1. Can it work with 2 vs 1, or 4 vs 1? Do you need to tweak life totals or poison damage to compensate?

As a casual format, you can play it with as many people as you like. Some like to modify it so your archenemy has more life if you play with more players to avoid just doing mass burn or some such.

March 29, 2012 7:48 p.m.

cryptichorror says... #2

also... Do the effects of the schemes (such as drawing cards, or spells costing less to cast) only apply to the archenemy, or to all players?

March 29, 2012 7:52 p.m.

GoblinsInc says... #3

The schemes do what they say. Could you supply a specific scheme with the question? (unless someone else manages to answer satisfactorily)

March 29, 2012 7:55 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #4

1. Schemes are not spells, and they cannot be countered. Actually, setting a scheme into motion is a turn-based action that does not use the stack at all.

904.9. Immediately after the archenemy's precombat main phase begins during each of his or her turns, that player moves the top card of his or her scheme deck off that scheme deck and turns it face up. This is called "setting that scheme in motion." (See rule 701.22.) This turn-based action doesn't use the stack. Abilities of that scheme card that trigger "When you set this scheme in motion" trigger.

1. Ongoing schemes stay in effect until their abandonment condition is met. An ongoing scheme in play does not interfere with new schemes being set into motion.
2. That's really a matter of preference. It is traditionally played in a 3-on-1 setup, but your playgroup can change the rules to suit its own opinions and wants. Officially, the non-archenemy team may consist of any number of players but no compensation is given for that team consisting of more than or less than three players.

904.2a One of the teams consists of exactly one player, who is designated the archenemy.

904.2b The other team consists of any number of players.

March 29, 2012 7:55 p.m.

cryptichorror says... #5

An example would be The Pieces Are Coming Together. "When you set this scheme in motion, draw two cards. Artifact spells you cast this turn cost 2 less to cast."

I'm assuming that only applies to artifact cards that the archenemy cast. It does say "this turn", but an opponent could cast Shimmer Myr "this turn". Would it cost 2 less?

March 29, 2012 7:58 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #6

Odd. The formatting reset my numbering to say 1, 1, 2 rather than 1, 2, 3...

Also, GoblinsInc, schemes may not be countered since they do not use the stack. Their effects do, but the scheme cards themselves do not.

March 29, 2012 7:58 p.m.

hunter9000 says... #7

1) You can't respond to the scheme being set in motion. It's a turn based action. You could respond to any abilities that it creates on the stack, but you can't do anything to the scheme itself, it's not a spell or a permanent.

505.3. First, but only if the players are playing an Archenemy game (see rule 904), the active player is the archenemy, and its the active players precombat main phase, the active player sets the top card of his or her scheme deck in motion (see rule 701.22). This turn-based action doesnt use the stack.

311.2. Scheme cards remain in the command zone throughout the game, both while theyre part of a scheme deck and while theyre face up. Theyre not permanents. They cant be cast. If a scheme card would leave the command zone, it remains in the command zone.

2) You keep an ongoing scheme out until something specifically makes you abandon it. You can have multiple schemes out, ongoing or otherwise.

3) It's meant for 3 on 1 typically, but it's up to your group. If you have 2 players with really powerful decks, you could probably make 2 on 1 work. 4 on 1 starts to get unfair for the archenemy unless you make adjustments. But like all casual variants, it's meant to be fun, so make whatever changes make it fun.

March 29, 2012 7:58 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #8

Effects that say "you" refer specifically to that effect's controller. In this case, that is the archenemy (who set the scheme in motion). Artifact spells that other players cast are not affected by this scheme.

March 29, 2012 7:59 p.m.

cryptichorror says... #9

@hunter9000

Rule 505.3 says 'precombat main phase'. Is that when schemes are revealed and set into motion? I assumed it was before untap.

March 29, 2012 8:02 p.m.

GoblinsInc says... #10

@epoch

Please, read my post in full. Though the second section makes it sound a little like you can counter the scheme (or the act of putting it into motion) that was already addressed earlier in the post.

"Most schemes have triggered abilities on them. Though the act of putting a scheme into motion doesn't use the stack, the triggered ability does.Though the ability is not a spell and so things like mana leak cannot target it (nor counter it). However things like stifle or voidslime work fine."

March 29, 2012 8:03 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #11

Nothing ever happens before the untap step, to the best of my knowledge. Schemes are set in motion during the first (precombat) main phase of the archenemy's turn.

March 29, 2012 8:04 p.m.

GoblinsInc says... #12

Yes cryptic, You set schemes into motion at the start of your (the archenemy's) precombat main phase.

March 29, 2012 8:04 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #13

GoblinsInc: You stated that schemes do not use the stack, but it was never explicitly stated that schemes themselves may not be countered. In light of that fact, the second part of your response made it sound as though they could. I was just seeking to dispel any confusion from that post.

March 29, 2012 8:06 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #14

ITT: Response timing fails, charlie foxtrot style.

March 29, 2012 8:07 p.m.

GoblinsInc says... #15

I believe it was clear enough, but I can't say I ever object to making sure things are clear :) I've seen far too many mixups in my time.

March 29, 2012 8:07 p.m.

cryptichorror says... #16

Cool. Thanks for all the responses. This sounds fun.

March 29, 2012 9:11 p.m.