Kitchen Finks interaction with Outcast
Modern forum
Posted on July 27, 2013, 8:13 p.m. by Wizard of the Damned
So I read that Melira does not remove the counters off of etched monstrosity so why does it work with kitchen finks?
Melira, Sylvok Outcast DOES prevent Etched Monstrosity from entering the battlefield with -1/-1 counters. She DOES NOT remove any existing counters from creatures on the battlefield. Any creature that would enter with any number of -1/-1 counters does not enter the battlefield with them if Melira is already on the battlefield.
July 27, 2013 8:23 p.m.
FYI, Gavony Township is what you want to use to remove those -1/-1 counters.
August 1, 2013 11:28 a.m.
actually adding +1/+1 counters doesnt remove -1/-1 counters it just negates them. This is important for certain cards like Animar. In animar's case its exactly the opposite, adding -1/-1 counters to him doesnt affect the number of +1/+1's he has so you can reduce him to a 2/2 but he could still be cheating in 10 cost creatures.
August 9, 2013 8:38 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #6
"121.3. If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it as a state-based action, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it. See rule 704."
August 9, 2013 8:40 p.m.
Wizard of the Damned says... #7
The reason I was saying that is because the Outcast says they cant be placed on creatures and the creature such as Etched comes in with the counters already on him
August 9, 2013 9:01 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #9
but if etched is out and you play melira you don't remove any counters already on him.
August 9, 2013 9:04 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #10
Whenever a permanent enters the battlefield with any number of any kind of counters on it, those counters are placed on that permanent as it enters the battlefield.
Melira, Sylvok Outcast prevents -1/-1 counters from being placed on creatures you control, so she prevents your creatures from entering the battlefield with -1/-1 counters.
Also, this should have been asked in the Q&A.
August 9, 2013 9:20 p.m.
thanks for the rule reference, i have to jump my buddy who has been misplaying his deck to beat me !
August 10, 2013 5:24 p.m.
salmanshah says... #12
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Ohthenoises says... #2
Removal is different.
Melira, Sylvok Outcast 's oracle ruling: 6/1/2011 Melira doesn't remove any poison counters you already have or any -1/-1 counters already on creatures you control.
Where you are getting confused is that you can't PLACE counters on things. If a Kitchen Finks were to die BEFORE Melira, Sylvok Outcast ETB then the -1/-1 counter would still be there. If you pod into Etched Monstrosity after Melira, Sylvok Outcast you get a vanilla 10/10.
July 27, 2013 8:23 p.m.