Two-Headed Giant: Combat Question
General forum
Posted on Sept. 11, 2011, 3:46 p.m. by Hypersapien
Hello. My coworkers and I play a lot of casual Two-Headed Giant games during our lunch breaks. One problem that has persisted amongst the less experienced players are abilities that trigger when a player receives damage. Examples; Vengeful Pharaoh ,Dissipation Field ,parrish and any Circle of Protection Card. I had advised my coworkers not to put cards like these into their decks because their opponents can simply assign damage to their teammate, and avoid triggering those cards. Am I correct about this?
Some confusion arose when I recently looked up the ruling for card:Norn's Annex, which reads:
"In a Two-Headed Giant game, if one player controls Norn's Annex, creatures can't attack that player's team or a planeswalker that player controls unless their controller pays W/P for each of those creatures he or she controls. Creatures can attack planeswalkers controlled by that player's teammate without having to pay this cost."
So this card seems to get around the problem. Is this because it is making a distinction between attacking a player/team and damaging a player/team?
If any one could verify that I'm interpreting these rules correctly I'd appreciate it.
mozerdozer says... #3
Players share combat damage. Any combat damage will affect both of them. Normal damage is dealt differently; it is directed at an opponent and his team loses life.
September 11, 2011 5:03 p.m.
mozerdozer is incorrect.
In general, combat damage is dealt to a specific player, then it affects the team's life total (or amount of poison counters). Thus, players can effectively get around Vengeful Pharaoh , Dissipation Field , and Pariah fairly easily.
For card:Norn's Annex, things get more complicated than that. During the declaring attackers step, the attacking team decides how their creatures will deal damage, namely the opposing team or a planeswalker controlled by the team. However, it is not until the combat damage step in Two-Headed Giant that the attacking team chooses which individual player it deals damage to (if the opposing team was chosen in the declaring attackers step).
card:Norn's Annex affects when creatures attack, which is the declaring attackers step. Since at this point of the turn the game doesn't know if you are attacking the player with card:Norn's Annex or the player without, it treats the team as having card:Norn's Annex, and you must pay if you decide to attack the team.
I hope this made sense, I know it got abstract.
September 11, 2011 7:30 p.m.
Here are the rules to back all that up:
508. Declare Attackers Step
508.1b If the defending player controls any planeswalkers, or the game allows the active player to attack multiple other players, the active player announces which player or planeswalker each of the chosen creatures is attacking.
810.7f As the combat damage step begins, the active team announces how each attacking creature will assign its combat damage. If an attacking creature would assign combat damage to the defending team, the active team chooses only one of the defending players for that creature to assign its combat damage to. Then the defending team announces how each blocking creature will assign its combat damage.
September 11, 2011 7:32 p.m.
mozerdozer says... #6
If they wanted to attack a Planeswalker, wouldn't they have to announce when they declare attackers, not the combat damage step? Thus if they declare creatures as attackers against a Planeswalker controlled by the member of the opposing team that does not control the Norn's Annex, couldn't they still attack it.
September 11, 2011 8:32 p.m.
mozerdozer says... #7
Wait just re-read the Oracle ruling. My interpretation is correct. /facepalm.
September 11, 2011 8:33 p.m.
Hypersapien says... #8
Thanks for the help guys =) I have a feeling my buddies wont be too happy when I drop a couple of these in our matches, and now I feel like I have the information to back them up.
September 11, 2011 11:33 p.m.
More than happy to help.
For simplicity, you can explain it as such:
During the declare attackers step, your opponents decide if they are attacking your team or a planeswalker your team controls (and which planeswalker). If your team or a planeswalker you control (assuming it is you who has card:Norn's Annex out) is chosen, then they must pay. If they choose your team, they decide which player during the combat damage step, after blockers have been declared.
Hypersapien says... #2
Derp, when I said "parrish", I meant Pariah
September 11, 2011 3:48 p.m.