Is playing MTGO worth it?
Online Magic forum
Posted on July 14, 2015, 6:01 p.m. by IcyLightning
I've been considering getting into MTGO. I played a few trial games and the client seems okay if a bit stiff and clunky, but the ability to play Magic anytime is pretty alluring. I've played several of the Duels of the Planeswalkers games and enjoyed them, but they leave a lot to be desired when it comes to building decks and collecting cards, which is one of the best aspects of Magic to me as I'm sure it is to a lot of people.
I know there are forums and threads and discussions all over the internet but I wanted some opinions from you guys about your experiences.
I'm not looking to put much money in this beyond the initial fee and then maybe a few bucks here and there. I've read forums about going "infinite" but how viable is that really? What other problems are there that you guys have encountered? Is it easy to play with friends or is there no dedicated system in place for that? Also, are there AI decks you can play against?
PasorofMuppets says... #3
It's possible to play with friends for free, but there is a secondary market for cards just like on paper; although there are some free bots that give out cards -- but they're nothing worth anything most of the time.
As stated cheap budget decks are easy to obtain, and the price is generally cheaper for cards.
As for "going infinite," it's hard. Best way to do it is usually to get one of the top decks in a format and grind daily events, depending on pack prices you can usually make a pretty decent return, but it takes a decent amount of dedication and format knowledge. If you're interested in playing competitively on the cheap, might want to check out the Pauper format.
The UI in generally is pretty shit and mtgo definitely has issues, but every time I've had an issue with something I've been able to put in a ticket and get reimbursement for whatever so the only thing that was wasted was my time (doesn't happen to frequently either). Also of note is that for whatever reason there appears to be a memory leak in mtgo sometimes so you have to shut it down after using it for a while or it because very sluggish.
A great resource for mtgo metagame information as well as prices is mtggoldfish.
July 14, 2015 6:13 p.m.
MinscAndBoo says... #4
Stay away, it's a barely-held-together mess. The game functions just well enough for the most addicted players to stick around, while the rest of us left long ago due to frequent crashes, insultingly bad user experience, and terrible value. For over a decade they've said they're going to fix it, but they haven't. Don't become another one of their addicts.
I've played both, and believe me--paper magic is best magic.
July 14, 2015 6:13 p.m.
HolyFalcon says... #5
Paper is def best, but it's not readily available 24/7.
July 14, 2015 6:15 p.m.
Don't let MinscAndBoo spoil your experience, MTGO is the best online example of Magic: the Gathering. It has its bugs, sure, but that doesn't spoil the experience. Duels is a watered-down version of MtG, whereas MTGO is the full unbridled Magic experience. It can get pricey if you want to build competitive decks, but you can easily build decks like Mono-Red and play semi-competitively.
It's not Paper Magic, but really, what is?
July 14, 2015 6:19 p.m.
HolyFalcon says... #7
MTGO 2: The interface of DotP. New client, and every player gets their card collection ported over.
July 14, 2015 6:22 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #8
I mean, you could just use cockatrice. Or if that's not good enough, XMage has rules automation too and a nice interface. And more importantly, they're both entirely free.
July 14, 2015 6:22 p.m.
If it's just the appeal of being able to play anytime then look into something like Cockatrice. It's completely free to it's users and there are always games available. You can't win anything and there is no organized tournaments or anything like that, but it gives you the ability to put together any deck you want and be able to play games with it against Human opponents. It's great for testing out new ideas or just getting more practice in with your favorite deck.
July 14, 2015 6:24 p.m.
HolyFalcon says... #10
But Cockatrice isn't the real deal. But yeah, if you just want online magic, 'Trice is the way to go. Never use untap.in. It has a worse interface than freaking MTGO which is saying something.
July 14, 2015 6:26 p.m.
IcyLightning says... #11
I'm not looking to replace Paper Magic, more to supplement it. I'll have to try out Cockatrice to see if I like it, because all I'm really looking for is a good way to play and make decks and play them whenever I want. Although having a collection and trading is certainly fun, I feel like I get enough of that experience from Paper.
July 14, 2015 6:33 p.m.
I think JWiley129 has the best reason for not playing MTGO. They say "It can get pricey if you want to build competitive decks, but you can easily build decks like Mono-Red and play semi-competitively".
In other words unless your willing to spend money on MTGO like you would your paper decks, your limited in what games you can play and what decks you can use. You can't try out different ideas or build multiple decks without investing lots of money into it (even if MTGO prices are typically lower than paper prices). If your looking purely for the online experience and just being able to play against actual people at any time you want then you should use something like Cockatrice or the like. They're easily superior to MTGO because they cost you nothing while simultaneously giving your the freedom to play anything you'd like.
July 14, 2015 6:38 p.m.
PepsiAddicted says... #13
it works fine but the interface is not really polished... more polished than the free services that i know tho. i see it as a option to play EDH when theres no1 available or when its too late at night for paper magic. buuut it wont be as satisfying as paper magic. and you will develop weird habits in long edh matches... like tapping out to speed up 2h matches ;)
it offers some interesting features like the Momir Basic Format and huge huuuuge drafts if you are into that but its not for free. you can win ur entry tickets back if you get high enough. the overall lvl in tournaments is high. the lvl of player interaction is very low but thats ok because it means almost no complaining or b*tching.
the main reason to get into mtgo for most ppl are tournaments of all scales and formats available 24/7.
if you wanna get into it let me know (PepsiAddict ingame)
<3
July 14, 2015 6:40 p.m.
abenz419 - How is that different from Paper Magic? In many ways, MTGO is cheaper than Paper Magic. You only need 4-ofs if you're unwilling to move cards from deck to deck. It is MUCH easier to build similar decks with different versions and sideboards. Cards are near infinitely cheaper on MTGO than in paper ('goyf is about $50 on MTGO). The interface could use some work, but it's still Magic and it's the closest you'll get to playing real Magic online.
July 14, 2015 6:46 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #15
You can't compare paper and online magic JWiley129. Cockatrice, for example, is almost the exact same thing as MTGO and it's free. XMage is also the same thing (with the rules installed), and is equally free. I don't see why anyone should have to pay a solid amount of money just to have the "official" program.
July 14, 2015 6:50 p.m.
IcyLightning says... #16
Yeah Momir sounds fun for sure, and the ability to play different formats at any time are really the biggest selling points for it in my eyes, so I'll have to see. If anything I can just take the plunge and get it and if I don't like it, oh well $10.
July 14, 2015 6:53 p.m.
PepsiAddicted says... #17
if you dont wanna do tournaments or trading you should use the free services.
i didnt like most ppl i met on cockatrice and if you ever try to play something like chaoshug on there you will just get a headache.
July 14, 2015 6:53 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON - Cockatrice is nowhere near MTGO. The social environment on Cockatrice is way worse than it is on MTGO. I've never played Xmage, so I can't comment there, but if you want a true Magic experience online, MTGO is it. And if you want that experience, you have to pay for it. It's $10 to set up an account, and from there you can put as much money as you need/want into it. It's not Free to Play, and anyone who says that is lying. At FNM you pay $10-$15 to draft, $5-$10 for Constructed, and MTGO is the same. MTGO is akin to an LGS, where you put money in for the chance at prizes.
July 14, 2015 6:54 p.m.
MinscAndBoo says... #19
I forgot to mention--there are a LOT of trolls on MTGO. These assholes will flame you because your brew destroyed the netdeck they spent their entire entertainment budget on. Hey, it's the Internet.
Being a dick at a face-to-face FNM entails actual risk. While there are poorsports IRL, there aren't nearly as many. If I had to play Magic Online again, I'd probably disable the chat window (which is at least possible, last I checked).
Most defenses of the client are pure Stockholm Syndrome. Of course you want to believe that a program in which every other game says "Bugged, Do Not Join" is worth your investment, because you've spent a lot of money on it. It's the only theater in town, and even though the seats are grubby, the popcorn's stale, and the floor is sticky, what right have you to complain as long as the projector works--sort of?
I wouldn't trade my paper collection for three times the value in MODO "cards".
July 14, 2015 6:55 p.m. Edited.
MinscAndBoo - There's a block feature, fyi. But if that's your attitude about MTGO, fine. Stay off the client that myself and thousands of other Magic players enjoy every day. The trolls are worse on Cockatrice a thousand-times over. There is 0 accountability on the free services, whereas you can get accounts banned on MTGO for abusive comments.
July 14, 2015 6:58 p.m.
MinscAndBoo says... #21
Also, you don't have to take my word for it.
Part 2 is here. Quote: "It is the kind of system that makes you wonder, 'How could this be designed so poorly?'"
July 14, 2015 6:59 p.m. Edited.
PepsiAddicted says... #22
this is drifting away from OPs question. back on track.
also troll isnt a synonym for rage.
<3
July 14, 2015 7:02 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #23
JWiley129 Once again, you can't compare an FNM draft with an MTGO draft. They're just completely different experiences.
People don't use online programs such as Trice or MTGO for the "social environment". If people wanted to experience playing MTG, they wouldn't do it in their bedroom alone on a computer, they would head over to FNM and play with real cards, with other people, in a fun and exciting environment. That can't be matched by any program. The reason that people use such programs is because FNM and other real-life tournaments don't happen every day or whenever you want, so they use Trice or MTGO or any other program to play the game itself. But no amount of money spent on MTGO will match the feeling of playing real life Magic, because programs simply can't create that sensation.
July 14, 2015 7:02 p.m. Edited.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #24
Also, let me quote from Boo's article:
"None of the... magic of paper Magic exists on Magic online, except the game itself."
July 14, 2015 7:05 p.m.
MinscAndBoo says... #25
A rough timeline:
2002: Magic Online 1.0 by Leaping Lizard released for Windows.
2003: Magic Online 2.0 released by Wizards internal development, after wresting control from Leaping Lizard.
2003: MTGO 2.0 so unusably server-crashingly buggy that Wizards turns off the ability to give them money, reverts it to a beta.
2003: Wizards apologizes for the servers crashing by launching a free event called Chucks Virtual Party. This crashes the servers.
2006: the rebuilt-from-the-ground up Magic Online 3.0 scheduled for release.
2006: it is not released.
2007:
2008: Magic Online 3.0 released.
July 2012: Magic Online 4.0 (Tha Beta) gets first Wide Beta Spotlight.
7/16/2014: see above.
20XX: Macintosh client? Android? iPad?
Another timeline:
March 2013: Blizzard announces Hearthstone.
August 2013: Hearthstone enters closed beta.
March 2014: Hearthstone released for PC and Mac.
April 2014: Hearthstone released for iPad.
July 14, 2015 7:12 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON - However, there is only one place where you can play Magic online where you have accountability, and that's MTGO. Assholes exist everywhere, that shouldn't be a reason to not invest. And I would beg to differ on your last point. There are people who make money streaming MTGO and create communities around that. Limited Resources is the largest clan on MTGO. Kenji Egashira (aka NumotTheNummy), Gabe Reale (SGDoc), and Paul Cheon (HAUMPH) all stream Magic and have developed a community where you can interact and sometimes make friends with other Magic players. Sure the in-person aspect of paper Magic can't be replicated on MTGO, but to say it doesn't exist is just plain wrong.
MinscAndBoo - Hearthstone is not comparable to MTGO. It is 1000 times simpler and has nowhere near the following of Magic.
July 14, 2015 7:18 p.m.
MinscAndBoo says... #27
Getting back to the OP, though? The user experience in MTGO is pretty awful, and I've given it several chances over the years. Sadly, it's your only option if you want to play "real" (i.e., sanctioned, rules-enforced) Magic. Most MTGO players I've spoken to agree with me, actually, but they continue to play because it's the only show in town.
Don't be a chump.
July 14, 2015 7:24 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #28
"Assholes exist everywhere, that shouldn't be a reason to not invest."
But why invest when you could just do it for free...? You still haven't given me a solid reason why anyone should pay, what, a hundred dollars or so instead of using Trice or XMage.
And of course there are people who make money streaming or whatever. But that exists on every MTG program. Same thing as "making friends". I mean, this site is a pretty nice example of that and it's entirely online. But that doesn't come close to real life.
Also, MinscAndBoo, XMage has automated rule-enforcement built in, so there's no cheating.
July 14, 2015 7:30 p.m. Edited.
IcyLightning says... #29
MinscAndBoo I appreciate your opinion and certainly agree with you on some aspects of what I've seen of MTGO, but please try to stay on topic if you post further here. The goal of this thread was to illustrate various pros and cons of MTGO from different perspectives so I could get a good idea of whether I should play or not. So far all you've contributed to that discussion is you're hatred of MTGO.
To everyone else, thank you for your opinions. You've definitely given me some good insight into MTGO.
July 14, 2015 7:31 p.m.
buildingadeck says... #30
It really depends on what you want from it. If you just want to play some games, I would recommend Untap. The interface is kind of bad, as was previously mentioned, but I find there is more consistency in the matches I get than on Cockatrice, and the people are generally less likely to get angry and throw hissy fits, from my experience with both. Commander on Cockatrice is, however, much better, so it kinda depends on what formats you want to play.
However, if you want to earn Planeswalker Points and compete in tournaments, MTGO is the way to go. While I haven't played MTGO, it obviously has the official backing of WotC, and from what I've heard, the play level is typically better than on some of the free sites (I can attest to the weakness of some of the players on Untap and 'Trice). Again, it depends upon the experience you want to get.
July 14, 2015 7:34 p.m.
PasorofMuppets says... #31
If you want to test for competitive magic there is no better client than MTGO, but it sounds like you just want to play casually so cockatrice (even though it's complete shit and so is most of the community) or whatever should be fine. In my experience the average daily player on magic online is miles above the average cockatrice player. About the same amount of dicks probably, but you can block and report users on modo.
MTGO is pretty bad, but after a few months I got pretty used to it. Another nice thing that I don't think anyone has mentioned is that the spread on cards is also a lot tighter, so it's easier to get a better ROI if you decide to switch decks or get out of modo. MTGOTraders also buys tickets at about $0.9 per ticket, which is a great way to get out of modo.
Also to be clear planeswalker points and your DCI number are not linked to your mtgo account. Maybe one day.
July 14, 2015 7:35 p.m. Edited.
buildingadeck says... #32
TheHorse: My bad on that. I assumed since people like Reid Duke were able to use MTGO as a platform to get Pro Tour qualifications it would go through your PW Points. That's slightly disappointing.
Personally, I am a competitive player, and I would love to use MTGO, but I don't want to spend $100 on a deck that I've already spent $100 on IRL, ya know?
July 14, 2015 7:39 p.m.
PasorofMuppets says... #33
No worries, it's a little non-intuitive for them not to be linked, but the way people get access to paper events like that are through high-level events on mtgo such as the Magic Online Championship Series (MOCS)
Also totally feel that, I play magic online because I generally have neither the time nor the patience to play at local events. It's also nice that I can easily out my collection if money issues strike, which aren't uncommon for students.
July 14, 2015 7:43 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #34
Mtgo is infinitely cheaper when it comes to like modern and commander by the by. Sure, certainly some cards aren't that far off in price but for the most part i can build a 900 deck in paper and spend like 200-300 in mtgo.
It's a reason I'll be jumping in soon. Cockatrice and untap are okay if you're just durdling around but i can confidently say you will not grow as a player by playing there. There just isn't enough incentive to play your best on those sites.
July 14, 2015 7:47 p.m.
BarfQuackers says... #35
I think it depends on what your looking for, if you want to play competitively (while also playing paper magic) then it'll get kinda expensive (about half the price of a paper deck from my experience.) I got it about 4 months ago to test my home-brews against the current meta and I like it a lot personally. It's a little clunky but once you learn it it's not that bad. The user experience isn't terrible if you know how to use the report/block functions, if someone's acting like an a**hole general rule of the internet is to ignore them. What I'm trying to say is if you have money to spare get MTGO, if not get Cockatrice I heard its okay.
July 14, 2015 7:52 p.m. Edited.
buildingadeck says... #37
VampireArmy: I would agree that it is hard to play at your best on Untap because people do make a lot of errors, but one nice thing about the TO community is that you can find people who are willing to play you who are good players. If you have a decent amount of friends on the site, you can definitely play an array of decks piloted by people who know the game and their decks quite well. But I'm also cheap, so there ya go. Once I finish assembling my deck on paper (about $30 to go unless I decide I want Crucible of Worlds in the sb), I might consider slowly purchasing the cards on MTGO in order to get better. I do much prefer playing at an LGS, though.
July 14, 2015 8:22 p.m.
Just put together a budget modern deck and you never need to spend more than $15 and you get to play magic whenever you want. Well worth it!
July 14, 2015 8:30 p.m.
@JWiley129 I think you missed the point. IcyLightning literally said in the original post that he's not looking to put in more money than the initial fee and then maybe a few dollars here and there when he can.
You said yourself that unless you invest money into it your limited to cheap budget decks that can sometime win games. So I pointed out that that is probably the best reason to avoid MTGO, because you have to be willing to spend as much on MTGO as you do your paper decks. Which puts most people in a tough situation because their budget for paper magic is not infinite and most people don't want to cut into that budget to buy digital copies of things they already physically own. In no way was that even close to a comparison between the prices of paper magic and MTGO prices.
So like I said, if he's looking purely for the ability to play at anytime with an actual person online then MTGO is easily the worst option. Goyf cost $50 on MTGO but on Cockatrice it cost $0. It doesn't matter if MTGO is cheaper than paper magic because playing on MTGO still requires an investment. The only difference between playing a game on one of these free sources and MTGO is the fact that MTGO cost money and you must purchase the cards on MTGO before you can use them. Both of which can only be viewed as downsides.
Basically it comes down to... Pay nothing for something like cockatrice and have an easy way to play games of magic online with other people whenever you want... or.... Pay into MTGO constantly and have an easy way to play games of magic online with other people whenever you want. They're essentially the same thing, one just has a price tag.
The only way I would ever suggest MTGO to someone is if they literally had no way to physically play games of paper magic again. (maybe they just moved deep into the middle of the alaskan wilderness) Then I would suggest MTGO.. IF AND ONLY IF.... they wanted to still have that FNM type experience. Because you have to purchase the cards in order to use them on MTGO they're able to hold small tournaments and offer prizes to purchase more cards. They can't do this on something like cockatrice because there is nothing to win since you have access to everything already. So if they still wanted to have that competitive type atmosphere and had absolutely no way to ever play paper magic again then I might suggest MTGO. Other than that, if your able to play paper magic then it makes so much more sense to invest in physical cards that can rise in value because of exclusivity than it is to invest in digital copies where there are infinite amounts available.
July 14, 2015 8:33 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #40
I won't deny that tappedout is a great tool to boost the effectiveness of free programs. Doesn't always pan out that way though. Most users aren't that personal with the other users and scheduling games with most users is in fact a total pain in the ass (trust me I've done it a lot lol) but yeah man. Do whatever works best for you
July 14, 2015 8:35 p.m.
PasorofMuppets says... #41
abenz419, I agree with most of what you say. But I want to point out that your perception of the mtgo economy seems pretty flawed. There isn't really an infinite supply of magic cards on magic online, as the bottlekneck on card availability is the time in which the set is drafted. After that no one cares about opening packs and the cards functionally "go out of print," this also doesn't even take into account all of the mtgo cards that go into paper set redemption (although this is less of a factor now that the price for redemption has increased, thus making it less lucrative).
Besides, digital cards also grow in price and if investment is your concern it is also infinitely easier to convert your digital cards into cash (like a matter of minutes to having money in your paypal account), and as mentioned before the spread on cards is tighter so you're more likely to get something like 1.5-1.7 tix for a 2 ticket card whereas on paper you'd get maybe 50 cents for a 2 dollar card depending on what it is.
July 14, 2015 8:53 p.m.
abenz419 - Except one is actual Magic: the Gathering and another is fan-made. And, like most fan-made products, they're crap.
July 14, 2015 9:30 p.m.
Unless you have plenty of money to spare and really want to play online competitively, you should not get MTGO. I recommend XMage. It's essentially free MTGO, automated and free.
I used to use Cockatrice whenever I wanted to test out a deck idea before I invested in building it on paper, but then I started using XMage and I think it's so much better. Since XMage is automated players can't cheat, or make a mistake because they don't understand a ruling (which I ran into a LOT on Cockatrice), and I haven't run into any dicks either. But with most people there's hardly any communication, maybe a hello at the start and then a GG at the end.
July 14, 2015 10:25 p.m. Edited.
IcyLightning says... #44
A lot of good points have been brought up here but essentially what I'm getting from all this is:
MTGO- Good if you want to simulate the FNM scene and play in tournaments or competitive play, or if playing Paper just isn't an option for you. Cons are the poorly integrated client, fairly expensive investment depending on what you want to play.
Cockatrice/XMage/Untap- Good if all you are looking for is a more casual option of playing Magic at any time you so choose for free, without some of the benefits that comes with MTGO (no real incentive to win, less competitive environment, Playing against good opponents can be hit-and-miss)
July 14, 2015 11:25 p.m.
In Xmage you can set what difficulty you are playing at, for example you can set it to "serious" (the highest option) and then people will see that before they join the game, so they can see that you're playing with a tournament ready deck. In Cockatrice you can also put in the game description if you're playing a tier 1 deck or tier 2 or whatever. Granted it's still not a guarantee if you'll get the type of opponent you want, but at least it's something.
I'm pretty sure there's also a tapped out group on FB where tournaments are organized and whatnot.
July 14, 2015 11:48 p.m. Edited.
IcyLightning says... #47
Wolfninja That is interesting and something I didn't know, but I'm guessing that even this does not equate the same level of play that would be experienced from playing on MTGO, where you have something to not only win, but to lose.
July 14, 2015 11:50 p.m.
Probably not, but I've only done free drafts on MTGO so IDK how constructed tournaments are on it. To be fair though, even at an actual FNM not every player will be playing tier 1 decks, I've been to modern tournaments where some people just played their standard decks or slightly modified versions of them.
July 15, 2015 12:05 a.m.
PasorofMuppets says... #49
In general constructed events are more competitive than your average FNM. Honestly the same probably goes for limited as well, at least draft. I've heard someone who's been on the Pro Tour a few times say that the caliber of the average 8-man drafter on mtgo is higher than day 1 of the PT.
July 15, 2015 12:47 a.m.
Do you really have something to win though? They're digital copies of the card, so they're not going to have the collectors value like the paper versions do. There really is no way to recoup any value from the cards once your done with them. There is the option of trading, but then you only acquire more digital copies that have no value.
If you really just wanna be able to play online then it really doesn't make sense to invest any money into something that's going to limit what your even capable of doing unless you invest even more money. Especially when there are options available that won't limit what your able to do and play and won't cost you anything. One may be an officially licensed product and the other not, but your still playing games of magic. It's not like one uses different rules or changes anything about the game.
HolyFalcon says... #2
No AI, but players are almost always on for the free casual games. You can buy really cheap casual decks or budget standard decks, given the low price of cards on MTGO.
July 14, 2015 6:06 p.m.