Zedruu the Greathearted *f-etch* and Mind Control
Asked by deadmanwalking 14 years ago
Ok, so I recently acquired the Political Puppets commander precon, and I realized I'm a little fuzzy on how control of a creature works from a rules perspective. So to help me understand, lets look a scenario:
First, lets say I have all the mana I need for this to work, because that's not the point.
So there are 3 players in this game: me, Jimmy, and Bimmy. It's my turn and I control Zedruu and nothing else. I draw Mind Control . I play it on a creature Jimmy controls, lets say Raging Goblin . So here's the part I'm not sure about. Can I pass control of Raging Goblin to Bimmy without giving him control of Mind Control first? I know if I gave him Mind Control he'd get the goblin, but can I just strait give him the goblin permanently?
emblasochist says... #2
I'm not sure whether Zedruu the Greathearted can give Bimmy Raging Goblin straight away. Since you control the goblin through Mind Control , you would obviously gain the benefits of giving the mind control to Bimmy for the purpose of Zedruu's ability, but for the sake of discussion, were you to decide giving the raging goblin is a better choice anyway, I think what would happen is that you declare giving it to Bimmy and pay the mana, the ability goes to the stack and the creature goes to Bimmy, then when priority is checked, Mind Control sees that you control it, and snatches the goblin from Bimmy. I could be wrong about Bimmy actually gaining control of him though. Functionally, it is the same as using Donate on a creature you gained control of through Mind Control or something similar, but I've never seen this done before, so I don't know how it works.
June 19, 2011 4:56 a.m.
deadmanwalking says... #3
Ok, that's what I thought. I'd also like to point out that while you may not get card draw or life from the goblin, you can still pass the mind control after the goblin. Also notable, when combined with Volition Reins , Zedruu allows you to pass control of any permanent on the table to any other player indefinitely. Plus, after you pass the reins, you get to draw an extra card every turn for your efforts. That's a powerful tool to have in EDH, imo.
June 19, 2011 4:56 a.m.
deadmanwalking says... #4
I was referring to brianguymtg, sorry, I missed your post emblasochist. Is it possible for someone to do a rules check?
June 19, 2011 5:05 a.m.
From the rules section "Interaction of Continuous Effects":
613.6. Within a layer or sublayer, determining which order effects are applied in is usually done using a timestamp system. An effect with an earlier timestamp is applied before an effect with a later timestamp.
613.6a A continuous effect generated by a static ability has the same timestamp as the object the static ability is on, or the timestamp of the effect that created the ability, whichever is later.
In this case, Mind Control has the earlier time stamp, so first it's effect is applied, then Zedruu's ability applies over the top of it. Mind Control basically becomes an irrelevant permanent.
brianguymtg says... #1
You can just straight give the creature away, but you don't own it, so no good would come of it through Zedruu's ability.
June 18, 2011 8:21 p.m.