Token of Worldpine Wurm Dies. What happens?
Asked by Dorkstinn 11 years ago
If there is a Worldspine Wurm in play and I play a Progenitor Mimic coping the Worldspine Wurm.
1) If a token produced by the Progenitor Mimic pr Progenitor Mimic iteself dies would it produce 3 5/5 wurm tokens?
2) If Progenitor Mimic dies would it be shuffled into the deck by the ability?
Tradeylouish says... Accepted answer #2
Here are a couple of the relevant rules (which may just confuse you further):
603.6c. Leaves-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent moves from the battlefield to another zone, or when a phased-in permanent leaves the game because its owner leaves the game. These are written as, but arent limited to, When [this object] leaves the battlefield, . . . or Whenever [something] is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, . . . . An ability that attempts to do something to the card that left the battlefield checks for it only in the first zone that it went to. An ability that triggers when a card is put into a certain zone from anywhere is never treated as a leaves-the-battlefield ability, even if an object is put into that zone from the battlefield.
603.6d. Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions. Continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities must be treated specially. Leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a permanent phases out, abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library, abilities that trigger specifically when an object becomes unattached, abilities that trigger when a player loses control of an object, and abilities that trigger when a player planeswalks away from a plane will trigger based on their existence, and the appearance of objects, prior to the event rather than afterward. The game has to look back in time to determine if these abilities trigger.
Tradeylouish says... #1
1) Yes. The copies will have the token-prodiucing ability, and it will trigger as normal when they are put into the graveyard. Remember that tokens do hit the graveyard before they cease to exist as a state-based action.
2) No. The reason for this is somewhat complicated. You will notice that Worldspine Wurm 's shuffle triggered ability is worded "put into a graveyard from anywhere". This means it follows a different set of rules to a "dies" or "leaves the battlefield" triggered ability. When "leaves the battlefield" abilities determine whether they trigger or not, they use information about the game state as it was when their source left the battlefield. "Graveyard from anywhere" triggered abilities use information about the game state as it is when the ability would actually trigger. This means that when a Progenitor Mimic copy of Worldspine Wurm is put into the graveyard, the ability no longer exists because Progenitor Mimic no longer has it. Therefore it doesn't trigger. The "dies" trigger works because when the Progenitor Mimic copy (or one of the token copies) of Worldspine Wurm is put into the graveyard, the ability actually looks back in time to when Progenitor Mimic /Worldspine Wurm was still on the battlfield and had the ability. Therefore it does trigger.
The relevant rules are complicated, and I wouldn't blame you if you didn't fully understand. Perhaps someone else can put it more eloquently.
January 17, 2014 4:17 a.m.