ThrummingBird and a Planeswalker
Asked by ThatCrazy_Walrus 13 years ago
All right, today at my card night, a opponent attack another opponent's planeswalker with a Thrummingbird, what i'm wondering is does the Thrummingbird's ability trigger? I said no, and he said yes.
My apologies I read your question wrong to begin with. A planeswalker does not count as a player and will not cause Thrummingbird's ability to trigger.
What I stated previously is true in the case of dealing combat damage to a player specifically. If Thrummingbird deals combat damage to a player, its controller may choose which permanents and/or players with counter(s) on them and give them an additional counter of that type.
March 22, 2012 11:21 p.m.
Shavingfoams says... #3
I agree with emrakool, there's nothing in the comprehensive rules regarding this particular type of trigger and planeswalkers. Since the creature attacked and dealt damage to a planeswalker, and not a player, the ability does not trigger. Note that noncombat damage to a player can be redirected to a planeswalker they control, but attacking is directly at the planeswalker. For example, if I cast Blightning targeting you, when it resolves, I can choose to redirect the damage to a planeswalker you control. You will still discard two cards.
March 22, 2012 11:30 p.m.
Internet_the_Explorer says... #4
correct
306.4a A planeswalker does not count as another player. If you were to deal damage to a player, you may redirect it to any planeswalker
March 23, 2012 12:59 a.m.
That's a little contradictory, though. Wouldn't you HAVE to deal damage to a player before choosing to redirect the damage? Wouldn't it still proliferate (if that player chooses to add counters on, for example, a Geralf's Messenger with a counter from undying).
March 23, 2012 2:52 a.m.
Shavingfoams says... #6
Damage redirection is for noncombat damage only. Creatures must attack the planeswalker itself, and combat damage cannot be redirected to planeswalkers this way. When you declare attackers, you must declare for each attacking creature whether it is attacking the player or a given planeswalker. Also, redirection is a replacement effect, so if damage is redirected to a planeswalker, it was never dealt to the player.
March 23, 2012 3:02 a.m.
Shavingfoams says... #8
306.6. Planeswalkers can be attacked. (See rule 508, "Declare Attackers Step.")
306.7. If noncombat damage would be dealt to a player by a source controlled by an opponent, that opponent may have that source deal that damage to a planeswalker the first player controls instead. This is a redirection effect (see rule 614.9) and is subject to the normal rules for ordering replacement effects (see rule 616). The opponent chooses whether to redirect the damage as the redirection effect is applied.
508.1b If the defending player controls any planeswalkers, or the game allows the active player to attack multiple other players, the active player announces which player or planeswalker each of the chosen creatures is attacking.
508.4. If a creature is put onto the battlefield attacking, its controller chooses which defending player or which planeswalker a defending player controls it's attacking as it enters the battlefield (unless the effect that put it onto the battlefield specifies what it's attacking). Such creatures are "attacking" but, for the purposes of trigger events and effects, they never "attacked."
508.5. If an ability of an attacking creature refers to a defending player, or a spell or ability refers to both an attacking creature and a defending player, then unless otherwise specified, the defending player it's referring to is the player that creature was attacking at the time it became an attacking creature that combat, or the controller of the planeswalker that creature was attacking at the time it became an attacking creature that combat.
I think that's every rule that relates to this, in particular. Remember, even though we often treat planeswalkers like players for convenience sake, they are not players, and thus do not trigger the ability.
March 23, 2012 3:07 a.m.
Shavingfoams says... #9
Protip: the work "planeswalker" is used about 100 bajillion times in the comp rules. bluh.
March 23, 2012 3:08 a.m.
Internet_the_Explorer says... #10
lol..., now who gets the anwsered credit...
March 23, 2012 3:26 a.m.
It certainly won't be the planeswalker that just had Lava Axe redirected to it.
Emrakool says... #1
The ability does trigger; however, as stated in the description of proliferate you choose any number of permanents or players with a counter(s) on them. In this case, you may choose not to give your opponent's planeswalker an additional loyalty counter.
March 22, 2012 11:13 p.m.