The Thought Lash Foundation for Empty Libraries
Asked by Bingbing 13 years ago
Thought Lash has been confusing me a great deal recently. It's just that the picture is totally bonkers, but it's the interaction with donation.
If you give it to an opponent during your upkeep whilst its cumulative upkeep trigger is on the stack, say with a Zedruu the Greathearted, if you then elect to not pay it, whose library gets exiled?
I've been given explanations regarding both outcomes.
One side says: You control the upkeep ability, but your opponent controls the permanent. They lose their library.
And the other: Thought Lash now says: When a player doesn't pay Thought Lash's cumulative upkeep, that player exiles all cards from his or her library., and so you lose your library.
I'm in a bit of a kafuffle. Any thoughts?
GoblinsInc says... Accepted answer #2
Until recently (I think around the scars or Innistrad rules change, you could donate the Lash in response to its cumulative cost trigger. They then changed it to fit more with the intention of the card, and modified it so that the person who failed to pay the cost is the one who exiles their library.
"When a player doesn't pay Thought Lash's cumulative upkeep, that player exiles all cards from his or her library."
Your best bet is to donate the Lasg before you are unable to pay for the cost, and hope they don't destroy it before the cost gets too high for them.
April 25, 2012 8:36 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #3
You used to be able to abuse Thought Lash because of the way its Oracle text was worded.
You control the cumulative upkeep ability of Thought Lash since you controlled the source of that ability when it triggered. Donating Thought Lash will not also donate its ability.
With the old Oracle text, failing to pay the upkeep cost would result in Thought Lash putting another triggered ability onto the stack with the effect "Exile your library." The controller of this ability is the controller of Thought Lash at the time it triggers, so if you donated Thought Lash in response to the cumulative upkeep trigger you'd cause this ability to trigger under your opponent's control.
That being said, the current Oracle text of Thought Lash is as follows:
Cumulative upkeepExile the top card of your library. (At the beginning of your upkeep, put an age counter on this permanent, then sacrifice it unless you pay its upkeep cost for each age counter on it.)When a player doesn't pay Thought Lash's cumulative upkeep, that player exiles all cards from his or her library.Exile the top card of your library: Prevent the next 1 damage that would be dealt to you this turn.The rewording of the Oracle text has changed the effect to exile the library of the player who controlled the cumulative upkeep trigger. Therefore, it would be your library that gets exiled, not your opponent's. You have to donate it before the cumulative upkeep ability triggers.
April 25, 2012 8:36 a.m.
KorApprentice says... #5
Hm, I was not aware of this. I believe that oracle text should not change the actual text of the card, but just clarify the text. Damn you Wizards and your willy-nilly changing of rules!
April 25, 2012 2:09 p.m.
KorApprentice says... #6
At least Illusions of Grandeur still works with Zedruu the Greathearted :/
April 25, 2012 2:15 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #7
Actually, the most recent update for Thought Lash finally puts the Oracle text in agreement with what's physically printed on the card. As printed, the "exile your library" is part of the same ability as the Cumulative Upkeep ability, which means the player who controls the Cumulative Upkeep trigger is the one who has to exile his library if the cost isn't paid.
rjg110 says... #1
In Other Words You lose your Library If you Don't exile the top card of your library
April 25, 2012 7:15 a.m.