Ruling for when Replacement Effects Apply

Asked by Delphen7 1 year ago

I had an opponent who insisted that if they cast Collected Company, and found Giada, Font of Hope and some other random angel, that the angel would enter with counters.

He pointed to Giada's Gatherer ruling for proof (Which isn't even relevant now that I'm looking at it), but I'm fairly sure that since Giada is a replacement effect, she has to be on the battlefield beforehand in order to change an event. I was unable to convince him since I couldn't find a ruling, and I died to that big angel.

I was still unable to find a definitive ruling after the match. So could someone point me to where the relevant rule is in the Comprehensive Rulebook? Thanks!

Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #1

You're right that the Gatherer ruling for Giada doesn't apply here. It's just clarifying how to count "each Angel you already control".

You're also right that Giada's ability can only be applied while she's on the battlefield:

614.4. Replacement effects must exist before the appropriate event occurs—they can’t “go back in time” and change something that’s already happened. Spells or abilities that generate these effects are often cast or activated in response to whatever would produce the event and thus resolve before that event would occur.

614.12. Some replacement effects modify how a permanent enters the battlefield. (See rules 614.1c–d.) Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To determine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects from the permanent’s own static abilities that would apply to it once it’s on the battlefield, and continuous effects that already exist and would apply to the permanent.

In your example, the replacement effect from Giada's ability doesn't exist yet at the time it could affect the other Angel entering the battlefield. The other Angel doesn't get counters.

June 30, 2022 5:13 p.m.