Question on Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker return to play ability...
Asked by Minathia 13 years ago
card:Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker
Specifically, I want to know how the "Whenever a creature with power 1 or less is put into your graveyard from play..." part catches its trigger.
Hypothetical SituationIf I have a 1/1 creature, lets say a Bog Initiate , and I equip him with a Skullclamp .
When he dies, he is a 2/0. By the time he gets finishes up in the graveyard, he is a dead 1/1 again. Does this still trigger a return to play via card:Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker?
Bigger Picture QuestionThe bigger question is when does does the creature stop being a 2/0?
A: As as he dies.B: As the equipment is removed from him.C: On the way to the graveyard.D: As as he enters the graveyard.E: After he enters the graveyard.
My GuessI say B. If the creature is dead, then it can't be equiped. The equipment falls off. If he is unequiped, he reverts to the starting P/T, though remains dead due to the SBA check and gets sent to the graveyard. As the creature enters the graveyard, it is with his original P/T.
Thoughts? Also, if possible, please link any official rule listings (at work and cannot lookup on my own).
Thanks and good luck guys.
"2/1/2005 Shirei's ability only triggers if the creature's power immediately before leaving the battlefield is 1 or less."
So I think it doesnt come back.
September 6, 2011 4:50 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #3
Leaves-the-battlefield triggered abilities, like Shirei's, use the last-known-information of the permanent as it existed on the battlefield. Because creature didn't have 1 power when it was last on the battlefield, Shirei's ability won't trigger for it dying.
September 6, 2011 4:52 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #4
From the Oracle ruling on card:Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker:
2/1/2005: Shirei's ability only triggers if the creature's power immediately before leaving the battlefield is 1 or less.
From the comprehensive rulebook:
608.2g If an effect requires information from the game (such as the number of creatures on the battlefield), the answer is determined only once, when the effect is applied. If the effect requires information from a specific object, including the source of the ability itself or a target that's become illegal, the effect uses the current information of that object if it's in the public zone it was expected to be in; if it's no longer in that zone, or if the effect has moved it from a public zone to a hidden zone, the effect uses the object's last known information. See rule 112.7a. If an ability states that an object does something, it's the object as it existsor as it most recently existedthat does it, not the ability.
Since the LKI of the creature in question states that it was a 2/0, Shirei's ability will not trigger.
September 6, 2011 4:57 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #5
The following rules quote is more specifically helpful to this situation:
603.6d Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions. Continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities must be treated specially because the object with the ability may no longer be on the battlefield, may have moved to a hand or library, or may no longer be controlled by the appropriate player. The game has to "look back in time" to determine if these abilities trigger. Leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a permanent phases out, abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library, abilities that trigger specifically when an object becomes unattached, abilities that trigger when a player loses control of an object, and abilities that trigger when a player planeswalks away from a plane will trigger based on their existence, and the appearance of objects, prior to the event rather than afterward.
Minathia says... #1
Ew, Tapped out just mangled my formatting. Sorry about that.
Still wtb a edit/preview button on questions...
September 6, 2011 4:47 p.m.