nivmagus elemental and syncopate

Asked by Nightstlkr 9 years ago

if i have a Nivmagus Elemental in play and later cast a Syncopate Izzet Charm or any pay x mana counter spell, when is it considered too late to exile it to the elemental for the counters?

Devonin says... #1

Nivmagus Elemental can only exile spells which are on the stack.

The fact that a spell has an X in the cost is completely irrelevant for the effect of the elemental.

For X spells, like all other spells, you make your choices, and pay your costs before the spell goes onto the stack. Then it remains on the stack until both players pass priority without adding anything new. At that time, the topmost object on the stack resolves.

If that topmost object was the spell you wanted to feed to the elemental, you need to activate its ability before you pass priority to your opponent with it being the topmost object on the stack, because once they pass priority back, the spell simply resolves, with no further time to be activating abilities.

July 16, 2014 10:20 a.m.

Absinthman says... Accepted answer #2

It's a little bit tricky question. Well the latest you can use Nivmagus Elemental 's ability, is before the spell you want to exile starts resolving (if you were asking whether you can let your opponent pay the additional mana and then exile it, no that's not possible).

In your scenario, you have two options:
First option is simple and has a guaranteed outcome: Cast Syncopate , you then get priority again, and before passing it, exile Syncopate to activate the Elemental's ability.
Second option is greedy and depends on how well you can read your opponent. You can either reap additional value, or get blown out: Cast Syncopate , pass priority to the opponent. Only do this if you strongly believe, that your opponent will do something in response, like attempt to counter your Syncopate . If he or she does, you then get priority again and can exile Syncopate at this point. As I've said, there is a risk to this that if your opponent decides to do nothing, Syncopate will start resolving, and you will miss the window in which you can use the Elemental's ability.

July 16, 2014 10:21 a.m.

Nightstlkr says... #3

do you technically receive priority again just before Syncopate resolves and you essentially get the option of let it resolve or play something else (i.e. sacrifice it to the elemental) or is it that as soon as i receive priority again (from opponent saying Syncopate is ok) it resolves immediately?

July 16, 2014 10:24 a.m.

Devonin says... #4

Once both players have pass priority in succession, the topmost object resolves. There is no more time, there are no more chances. Both of you pass? It's resolved.

If they cast a spell, and you cast Syncopate in response, and they pass priority to you with Syncopate on the stack, your options are "Exile Syncopate before it resolves, via the Elemental" or "Pass priority, and Syncopate resolves"

July 16, 2014 10:33 a.m.

Devonin says... #5

Er...let me backtrack that. I misread the alternate question. We could -really- use a delete button around here if not just an edit button. Seriously.

When you cast a spell, you still have priority, so if you pass priority with Syncopate on the stack, and they pass priority back, Syncopate happens. There's no further time in which to exile the spell off the stack. When they pass, you don't get a "last chance" to act, the object simply resolves.

July 16, 2014 10:35 a.m.

Devonin says... #6

Also, I'm curious why you're looking at the additional cost spells...I think maybe you think you can get them to pay the mana and then exile the spell, getting the counters and also value by making them tap out. That doesn't ever happen.

By the time they are required to choose whether or not to pay the mana from a spell like Syncopate it has already resolved. It is gone, off the stack, and there is absolutely no time at all for you to exile the spell.

If they've paid the mana into an Izzet Charm or a Syncopate you've already allowed the spell to resolve.

July 16, 2014 10:37 a.m.

Absinthman says... #7

To answer your alternate question, see the following rule:

116.3c If a player has priority when he or she casts a spell, activates an ability, or takes a special action, that player receives priority afterward.

This means that you are the first player to receive priority after you cast Syncopate . If you pass it, it goes to your opponent. If he or she passes too, then the situation where "all players passed priority in succession" happens, and as a result, the topmost object on the stack will resolve. So no, you don't get priority again after both you and your opponent have passed it.

July 16, 2014 10:47 a.m.