Hive Mind Confusion

Asked by gsnh 8 years ago

I have Hive Mind on the battlefield under my control in a multiplayer game.

I cast Reforge the Soul and copy it with Increasing Vengeance from my hand.

How many copies of Reforge the Soul are cast?
Increasing Vengeance says 'spell you control,' so does that prevent the Hive Mind trigger from working?

Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #1

Only one Reforge the Soul is cast. The copies created by Hive Mind's ability are created on the stack; they are never cast.

If you cast Reforge the Soul, then respond to Hive Mind's triggered ability by casting Increasing Vengeance, then you get two total instances of Reforge the Soul while everybody else gets one.

1. You cast Reforge the Soul. Hive Mind's ability triggers.
2. Hive Mind's ability is put onto the stack above Reforge the Soul.
3. You cast Increasing Vengeance targeting Reforge the Soul. Hive Mind's ability triggers.
4. Hive Mind's ability is put onto the stack above Reforge the Soul.
5. Hive Mind's ability resolves and attempts to give each player a copy of Increasing Vengeance. However, no other player controls any other instant or sorcery spells, so the copies aren't created.
6. Your Increasing Vengeance resolves, copying your Reforge the Soul.
7. Your copy of Reforge the Soul resolves.
8. Hive Mind's ability resolves and gives each other player a copy of Reforge the Soul.
9. The Reforge the Souls each resolve from the top down.

However, if you cast the Increasing Vengeance after Hive Mind's ability resolves and copies Reforge the Soul, then each player will copy his or her own second copy of Reforge the Soul. Each player controls the copies that Hive Mind gives him or her, and the "you" in Reforge the Soul's text always refers to that spell's controller.

November 26, 2015 11:24 a.m.

gsnh says... #2

So if I want to maximize the number of spells, I should cast Increasing Vengeance on the initial copy of Reforge the Soul that Hive Mind produces?

November 26, 2015 11:36 a.m.

Epochalyptik says... #3

No. The maximization has nothing to do with whether you target the copy or the original. It has to do with whether you cast Increasing Vengeance after Hive Mind's ability copies Reforge the Soul.

If you cast it before, then nobody else will have a copy of Reforge the Soul to target. If you cast it after, then everyone will be able to copy their own Reforge the Soul. This is because Increasing Vengeance can only target a spell controlled by the same player who controls Increasing Vengeance.

November 26, 2015 12:06 p.m.