Grim affliction
Asked by xo2 13 years ago
If I play Virulent Wound and then Grim Affliction , does my opponent get an infect counter if the proliferate kills it?
Sorry...
It works either way. I overlooked that Virulent Wound says "When that creature is put into a graveyard this turn,"...
The controller will get one either way.
June 4, 2011 1:46 p.m.
The only way this would work the way you wanted was if the creature is a 2/2. You would have to play Grim Affliction first, then Virulent Wound right after. The wound would come off the stack first and place the counter on the creature, making it 1/1. Then Affliction comes off the stack, adds the -1/-1 counter making it 0/0, as a state based action your op's creature goes to the graveyard, giving your opponent a poison counter, then you can proliferate as the second part of the effect of affliction, proliferating the poison counter you gave to your opponent.
I believe this would work, someone will probably clarify this if i'm right or wrong.
June 4, 2011 1:52 p.m.
In your question you ask "does my opponent get an infect counter if the proliferate kills it"
In short, no. If an op's creature was 3/3, it would still be a 1/1 creature by the time the proliferate kicks in. That means your opponent hasn't yet received the poison counter from Virulent Wound 's effect. Your op would get the poison counter after the proliferate, so no he wouldn't get the gravy poison counter because the counter wasn't there when proliferate came into effect.
Two part answers FTW. Again I hope i'm right.
June 4, 2011 1:57 p.m.
Pretty much you would need to cast the Virulent Wound first in that situation and then cast the Grim Affliction to be able to make the creature have a -1/-1 counter, then proliferate to give it another -1/-1 and then have the wound hit and give it the last -1/-1 sending it to the graveyard to give its controller the poison counter.
I think that works... :/
June 4, 2011 4:48 p.m.
BrightGreenLine says... #6
In short, yes you can use Virulent Wound and Grim Affliction to kill a creature AND give your opponent a single poison counter. Virulent Wound creates a delayed trigger effect so if the wounded creature goes to the graveyard at all that turn your opponent will get a poison counter, no matter how the creature was sent there.
However, you can't get proliferate the poison counter from Virulent Wound's delayed trigger no matter how you stack the effects. It's a delayed trigger, so it won't happen in the middle of Grim Affliction 's resolution (After you put a -1/-1 counter, but before you proliferate) because you have to fully resolve a spell before anything else can happen. More technically, the creature won't even go to the graveyard until AFTER Grim Affliction has finished resolving: Creatures don't get sent to the graveyard immediately when their toughness reaches 0, they have to wait until the next state-based actions check occurs, and states aren't checked during a spell's resolution. The only time a creature goes anywhere during a spell's resolution is when the spell explicitly says to exile, destroy, or sacrifice it. Lethal damage or less than 0 toughness have to wait for the spell to finish, where state checks are performed, and then the creature is shipped off to the graveyard.
In this case, where you need to use both Virulent Wound and Grim Affliction, you won't be able to proliferate your opponent's poison counters unless he had them before Grim Affliction resolved. So in short, if your opponent had 0 poison before the stack they'd have 1 afterwards, but if they had 1 poison they could have 3 if you proliferated.
June 4, 2011 5:01 p.m.
Ah I didn't know if it went to the graveyard immediately when it's toughness hit 0 or after all the spells resolve.
June 4, 2011 5:17 p.m.
ChaosParadox says... #8
Virulent wound states that as long as it dies the controller gets a poison counter soooo you can virulent wound then lightning bolt a 4 toughness and they will get a poison counter, you can virulent wound then attack if they block and it kills their creature they still get a poison counter..
using grim affliction it actually put 2 -1/-1 counters on a target because it says put one on THEN proliferate so with virulent wound and grim affliction u can do -3/-3. unfortunetly there is no way to proliferate the poison given from virulent wound killing something unless they already have poison on them :P, because the grim affliction would proliferate before poison from virulent goes off
June 5, 2011 3:34 p.m.
BrightGreenLine says... #9
@Leafs_suck: Permanents won't change zones during a spell's or ability's resolution unless the spell explicitly says to move them, is the basic gist of how it works. Unattached auras, creatures with negative toughness, and abilities like Tarmogoyf don't move anywhere when a spell resolves, they wait until just before anyone gets priority to suddenly realize they can't exist and then they poof out from state-based actions.
arobidoux says... #1
Yes...
But you would need to cast Grim Affliction first, and then cast Virulent Wound .
June 4, 2011 1:45 p.m.