Flashback + Cremate
Asked by redmasqu3rad3 12 years ago
Okay so on Saturday during the SCGO a judge called out a move I did and said it was invalid. Basically what it was, was my opponent played Feeling of Dread from his graveyard, in response I played Cremate to remove Feeling of Dread. The judge said that card is no longer a valid target since it is no longer in the graveyard when the flashback cost is paid. But according to the rules, "If the flashback cost was paid, exile this card instead of putting it anywhere else any time it would leave the stack." So it would still be considered in the graveyard while the stack is in effect. But he said it was considered in transition from graveyard to exile, so it was not longer a valid target. When did this "transition" phase start or was it just a bunch of BS and the judge was an idiot?
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #2
You were wrong.
You can't respond to your opponent's intent to cast Feeling of Dread. The casting process begins, and players lose priority. The card is taken from wherever it is and placed on the stack. Then, casting decisions (such as choosing modes and targets) are made. Lastly, costs are determined and paid.
At no point during this process since the announcement of Feeling of Dread did you have priority to cast Cremate. Once you gain priority, Feeling of Dread is on the stack; it is therefore an illegal target for Cremate.
The rules you quoted actually counter your argument - they specify that the spell is now on the stack. The exile part merely means that the spell will be exiled if it would be placed in any other zone.
March 4, 2013 5:04 p.m.
Another scenario is if you cast Cremate targeting the Feeling of Dread, they can cast it for flashback in response. You still get to draw a card, but they still get Feeling of Dreads effect.
March 4, 2013 5:17 p.m.
In your example, you would NOT get to draw a card, because Cremate would be countered upon resolution for not having a legal target.
March 4, 2013 5:20 p.m.
The drawing a card is seperate from the exile effect though, so wouldn't that section still resolve?
March 4, 2013 5:53 p.m.
MagnorCriol says... #6
No. Cremate has a target, and if all of a spell's targets are invalid when it tries to resolve, it's countered and none of the effects happen.
If Cremate exiled two cards, or just said "exile a card" (without using the word target), you could still do it - in the former because only one of its two targets is gone, and in the latter because you could just pick a different card in the graveyard. But because it specifically targets one card, if that card is gone, it can't resolve.
March 4, 2013 6:53 p.m.
Oh okay, I've played it wrong a couple of times then. I'll have to be more careful with my card choice from now on then.
Absinthman says... #1
Actually, you've answered your own question already. "If the flashback cost was paid, exile this card instead of putting it anywhere else any time it would leave the stack." implies that the card you're trying to target with cremate is on the stack at then moment. Once the flashback cost has been paid, the card moves from the graveyard onto the stack. This is probably what the judge meant by "transition". Then it is moved into exile.
March 4, 2013 4:57 p.m.