does damage actually lower toughness?
Asked by nielsbass 12 years ago
I wondered: If Doran, the Siege Tower is on the battlefield, one of my creatures has first strike and fights another creature, it deals combat damage first. Afterwards the opposing creature deals damage to my creature equal to it's toughness. Will this be his original toughness, or the toughness minus the damage my creature did?
Toughness doesn't change. It just determines how much damage it can take before the damage is considered lethal. If you have a creature with 3 toughness, it takes 3 damage for it to be destroyed. The only things that affect toughness are things that explicitly raise or lower toughness.
In your case, if your creature had Wither or Infect, then yes, the toughness is lower. Any other case would be that it has the same toughness as before.
April 2, 2013 11:25 a.m.
I was mistaken and acbooster is correct. Damage doesn't reduce toughness.
April 2, 2013 11:30 a.m.
Zurnic: Thanks, but I know how first strike works, that's not the problem. acbooster: So you're saying that damage doesn't lower toughness. That seems fair, thank you.
April 2, 2013 11:33 a.m.
RussischerZar says... #5
When you deal damage to a creature, it will get damage marked on it, which is not to be confused with a toughness reduction.
To actually lower its toughness you would have to cast something like tragic slip, or the other creature would need Wither or Infect, which works very well in combination with First Strike.
April 2, 2013 12:04 p.m.
RussischerZar says... #6
Forgot to link: Tragic Slip .
Also an example for First Strike + Wither: Rustrazor Butcher
April 2, 2013 12:06 p.m.
Absinthman says... #7
These things indeed must not be confused. I've played Duels of the Planeswalkers PC game and the system there in fact lowers the number that represents the creature's toughness when it is dealt damage to indicate how much more damage is required to destroy it. This is a very unfortunate way to do so, in my opinion, as it in fact creates a basis for such confusion.
April 2, 2013 12:16 p.m.
KrazyCaley says... #8
Everyone who is new and plays the Duels game gets that misapprehension. Wither, Infect, and things that give -x/-x lower toughness. Damage does not lower toughness.
Zurnic says... #1
It would be it's original toughness minus the damage done by your creature since first strike happens in its own combat step including damage. 702.7b If at least one attacking or blocking creature has first strike or double strike (see rule 702.4) as the combat damage step begins, the only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are those with first strike or double strike. After that step, instead of proceeding to the end of combat step, the phase gets a second combat damage step. The only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are the remaining attackers and blockers that didnt have first strike as the first combat damage step began, as well as the remaining attackers and blockers that currently have double strike. After that step, the phase proceeds to the end of combat step.
April 2, 2013 11:25 a.m.