Do abilities that make permanents deal damage work after the permanent is off the battlefield?
Asked by chrizzilla 11 years ago
For example, my opponent activates Arms Dealer 's ability, sacrifices a goblin, and then I Unsummon him in response. Since arms dealer is no longer on the battlefield, it can't do the 4 damage, correct?
Another example: could Arms Dealer sacrifice itself and deal damage to a creature then?
Darkness1835 says... #3
Ok. To your first question, you would still take the damage. Here's why:
1. Your opponents sacrifices a goblin and uses Arms Dealer
's ability, and the damage goes on the stack.
2. You cast Unsummon
targeting the Dealer.
3. Unsummon resolves, Dealer goes to owner's hand.
4. Then the damage will still resolve. However, what you could do is after your opponent declares activating the ability and sacrificing the goblin, you can unsummon the goblin he would sacrifice, disallowing him from paying the cost and preventing him from activating the ability.
But wait, it gets better. (or worse, for you)If you do do that, he may then use the mana still in his pool and sacrifice Arms Dealer to itself, still dealing you the damage.
Your creature will be taking 4 damage regardless. The end result is the same.
June 14, 2013 3:52 a.m.
Darkness1835 says... #4
The smarter play, depending what goblin he sacrifices, is Unsummoning that goblin, forcing him to either 1. sacrifice the Arms Dealer, or 2. allow whatever he was trying to kill to live. It puts him in a difficult situation where either way he's losing a creature, and if he wants his Arms Dealer badly enough, your creature is safe.
June 14, 2013 3:56 a.m.
Darkness1835 the sacrificing is a cost, it doesn't use the stack to work, it would activate before priority is passed to you, so you couldn't target the sacrificed creature with Unsummon , unless you target the Goblin before the costs are paid.
June 14, 2013 4:01 a.m.
Darkness1835 says... #6
@Zanern Well that's annoying. You're absolutely right, my mistake.
601.2. To cast a spell is to take it from where it is (usually the hand), put it on the stack, and pay its costs, so that it will eventually resolve and have its effect. Casting a spell follows the steps listed below, in order. If, at any point during the casting of a spell, a player is unable to comply with any of the steps listed below, the casting of the spell is illegal; the game returns to the moment before that spell started to be cast (see rule 717, "Handling Illegal Actions"). Announcements and payments can't be altered after they've been made.
June 14, 2013 4:07 a.m.
chrizzilla says... #7
So even though Arms Dealer is no longer on the battlefield, it can still deal 4 damage to something? Is that what you are saying?
June 14, 2013 4:38 a.m.
Here's what's going to go down:
Your opponent pays the mana and sacrifices the goblin (cost,) then the spell goes on the stack and he chooses targets. In response, you Unsummon Arms Dealer . Unsummon resolves, and the Arms Dealer goes to your opponent's hand. Then, the damage ability resolves, and it uses the last known "data" of Arms Dealer for it's damage (so if it had deathtouch when it was bounced, it could kill things with more than 4 toughness.)
Arms Dealer can also sacrifice itself, as the ability says to sacrifice a goblin, and Arms Dealer is a goblin. (It wouldn't be able to sac itself if it said "sacrifice ANOTHER goblin.")
June 14, 2013 4:38 a.m.
Phobophile says... #9
a lot of misinformation here.
Carsf is the most correct though.
June 14, 2013 5:59 a.m.
KrazyCaley says... #10
TL;DR -
It still does the damage. Once an ability has been put on the stack, removing the source of the ability does not stop the ability from resolving.
And yes, it could sacrifice itself.
June 14, 2013 6:45 a.m.
Think of it this way.If I have a rock and you have a gun and I throw the rock at you and you in response, shoot me, I may be out of the battle and dead but the rock is still going to hit you.
June 14, 2013 12:48 p.m.
tigersfan774 says... #12
Haha. I like Tunde's rather crude, but accurate, description of events.
June 14, 2013 12:54 p.m.
Tunde, I am going to go like all of your decks because of that metaphor.
ampos says... #1
In example 1, no damage is done since the creature is not on BF when it should leave.
In example 2, yes, damage is done.
June 14, 2013 3:48 a.m.