Cost Increase vs. Cost Decrease stacking

Asked by RedUndead40 8 years ago

So, my question is in regards to a matchup between Grand Arbiter Augustin IV and Animar, Soul of Elements.

As I was playing GAA4, my opponent had about 8 counters on Animar. He goes to cast a 6 drop colorless creature, but insists that he still has to pay due to GAA4's effect. Now I won't complain about my commander having that awesome effect but I don't want to be winning games by a misunderstood rule (that extra cost was the only thing keeping him from going infinite :P)

I referenced ruling 601.2f but was a bit confused by the wording.

Any explanation appreciated!

Devonin says... Accepted answer #1

601.2e ...The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions....

So you account for all modifiers as a whole before determining the cost, they don't apply in some order, though even if you did have to do it in a certain order, it would be, given the way the rule is written, increases first, and decreases second anyway.

They would pay 0 for that creature.

October 12, 2015 3:29 p.m.

RedUndead40 says... #2

That's what I thought, thank you.

However if I am reading this ruling right, if GAA4 had read "Spells your opponents cast cost an additional more to cast.", then it would still cost , right? That "additional" part is what makes him still have to pay?

117.8e Some effects increase the cost to cast a spell or activate an ability without using the word additional. Those are not additional costs, and are not considered until determining the total cost of a spell or ability as described in rule 601.2f.

October 12, 2015 3:35 p.m.

Rhadamanthus says... #3

That's not what 117.8e means. It's just clarifying what does and doesn't count as an "additional cost" for the purposes of how certain other rules work. Note how Devonin's quotation of 601.2f (the numbering was changed in a recent update) says "plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions". Even if Grand Arbiter Augustin IV's ability were written to work as an additional cost, it would still interact in the same way with Animar, Soul of Elements and other cost reducing effects.

October 12, 2015 4:18 p.m.

RedUndead40 says... #4

Rhadamanthus and Devonin thanks for clearing that up!

October 12, 2015 4:35 p.m.