Can I use Artificial Evolution on a creature, in response of it's ETB triggered abilities?

Asked by ThiagoMaia 13 years ago

The situation I wanna know about is this: If I play Turntimber Ranger can I in response of it's ability resolving, cast an artificial-revolution to change it's text for Wolf and get infinite tokens?

Also if I chose the subtype ally would it change the ability already on the stack, so that all tokens are allies?

Polaris says... #1

You could cast Turntimber Ranger and then Artificial Evolution in response, changing "Wolf" to "Ally" tokens. Then when it ETBs, it makes a 2/2 green Ally creature token, triggering its ability again and going infinite.From the rulings for Artificial Evolution:

10/4/2004: If you change the text of a spell which is to become a permanent, the permanent will retain the text change until the effect wears off.

October 28, 2011 9:27 p.m.

Polaris says... #2

Alternatively (if you want to be controversial), you can instead replace Ally with Wolf! It is now a "Human Scout Wolf" with "Whenever Turntimber Ranger or another Wolf enters the battlefield under your control, you may put a 2/2 green Wolf creature token onto the battlefield..."

This would also go infinite, but is much more likely to provoke "Wait, can you DO that?" remarks.

October 28, 2011 9:33 p.m.

rckclimber777 says... #3

That's fun!!!

And the answer is yes as already stated.

October 29, 2011 12:31 a.m.

mozerdozer says... #4

You cannot respond to it and change Wolf to Ally. Once the ability is on the stack, it is independent of its source and thus will be a Wolf token. For the combo to work, you need to change Ally to Wolf.

112.7a Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time wont affect the ability. Note that some abilities cause a source to do something (for example, Prodigal Sorcerer deals 1 damage to target creature or player) rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source because the effect needs to be divided checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both instances, if the source is no longer in the zone its expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.

October 29, 2011 12:57 a.m.

Polaris says... #5

I think he meant in response to its ability triggering, which would be perfectly legal, although he might as well do it on the stack before Ranger resolves.

October 29, 2011 1:52 a.m.

mozerdozer says... #6

There is no instance where he can use a single Ranger and Artificial Evolution to make infinite Ally tokens. He cannot use Evolution while Ranger is on the stack, and once Ranger ETBs, it makes a Wolf token, regardless of whether he uses Evolution to change the Wolf text to Ally. What he can do is change the Ally text to wolf which results in infinite wolves.

October 29, 2011 2:14 a.m.

MagnorCriol says... #7

mozerdozer is right. If you use it in response to the ability triggering, that means the ability is already on the stack and can't be changed (by Artificial Evolution , anyhow).

Using Evolution to change Turntimber Ranger 's text from Ally to Wolf works, though.

Alternately, you could wait until the Ranger's just chilling on the battlefield, cast Evolution to change his ability so he spits out allies instead of wolves, and then cast another ally spell, but that's not as tricksy and requires you to be able to cast an ally other than the Ranger.

October 29, 2011 10:34 a.m.

rckclimber777 says... #8

When turntimber ranger is on the stack it is still a spell. Only when it hits the field is it a permanent. So why can't artificial evolution target turntimber before turntimber ever resolves?

October 29, 2011 10:41 a.m.

MagnorCriol says... Accepted answer #9

Huh. RTFC, Magnor.

I skimmed Evolution and assumed it only allowed you to alter permanents, not spells. This does work, then, though not precisely as originally asked about.

From the Oracle rulings:

10/4/2004 If you change the text of a spell which is to become a permanent, the permanent will retain the text change until the effect wears off.

So you can change the text of the Ranger while it's still a spell, and the change will remain when it becomes a permanent.You still can't use Evolution in response to the ability triggering, which is what OP first asked about - you'd have to do it before the ability triggered (i.e. while the Ranger was on the stack) or change the Ally to Wolf on the Ranger instead. But you're right, you can change the Ranger while it's on the stack.

October 29, 2011 10:54 a.m.

mozerdozer says... #10

Face. I completely missed the part where Evolution said it could be a SPELL or a permanent. My bad.

October 29, 2011 1:19 p.m.

rckclimber777 says... #11

Yep So in conclusion.

As long as you target turntimber while it is on the stack as a spell. You can change ally to wolf thus giving you an infinite trigger when it resolves or you can change wolf to ally thus giving you an infinite trigger when it resolves. Either will work.

October 29, 2011 1:27 p.m.