Can be Cenn's Heir buffed by tokens created by Militia´s Pride's ability?
Asked by Bloodthirsty 10 years ago
Hello.If I attack with Cenn's Heir and few other creatures and I use Militia's Pride 's ability to produce attacking tokens, will the tokens strengthen Cenn's Heir ? What is happening first?
You'll attack with Cenn's Heir. This will cause both Cenn's Heir and Militia's Pride to trigger, you can stack them in the order you choose, so you could stack Heir first and Pride second, resolve Pride creating a new kithkin tapped and attacking, and then resolve Heir, which sees the additional attacking kithkin and buffs the Heir.
June 16, 2013 1:03 p.m.
Cenn's Heir will only count the other Kithkin declared as attackers at the exact same time as it is declared as an attacker. The tokens produced by Militia's Pride will not buff him.
June 16, 2013 1:04 p.m.
Cenn's Heir doesn't require them to be declared as attackers though. Upon resolution it says "How many other kithkin are attacking?" and sees as many as there are, even the ones that are attacking but weren't declared as attackers.
ie: They don't trigger 'when a creature attacks' triggers, but Cenn's "when a creature attacks" trigger was already triggered when Cenn's Heir attacked. We're just counting how many kithkin are attacking at the time Heir's ability resolves.
June 16, 2013 1:05 p.m.
hunter9000 says... #5
If you stack the triggered abilities so that Militia's Pride resolves first, you get to put out the extra tokens. Then when Cenn's Heir 's ability resolves, it will count the number of attacking kithkins. Since it's not an ability that triggers when the newly created kithkins attack, it doesn't matter that they weren't declared as attackers.
June 16, 2013 1:06 p.m.
603.3b If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player, in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities he or she controls on the stack in any order he or she chooses.
Both Cenn's Heir and Militia's Pride trigger at once, and can be stacked in the order that allows the Pride to create an attacking kithkin before Cenn's Heir sets out to count how many attacking kithkin there are.
June 16, 2013 1:07 p.m.
Do what the cool kids do, and wait for Epoch, Absinthe or Rada?
June 16, 2013 1:11 p.m.
My initial answer was incorrect. You can pay Militia's Pride 's trigger and have it resolve before Cenn's Heir 's trigger. Cenn's Heir will check upon resolution and see the attacking tokens, giving it +1/+1 for each.
June 16, 2013 1:13 p.m.
It's sort of like Hero of Bladehold which applies the Battle Cry effect to the tokens it creates. The rules text of "each other attacking creature" (which applies to all attacking creatures) is not the same as "whenever a creature attacks" (which applies to when creatures are declared as attackers).
June 16, 2013 1:38 p.m.
Absinthman says... #11
Devonin and the others that share his opinion are correct. Cenn's Heir and Militia's Pride both trigger at the same time. Because you control both triggers, you may stack them in any order you want. Effects that require information based on game state and card statistics fetch that information upon resolution. Therefore, the number of +1/+1 buffs for Cenn's Heir is determined only when his ability resolves. This means that if you stack the Heir's ability first and put the Pride above it, Pride will resolve first, creating an attacking token. Then when the Heir's ability resolves, it will count the number of other attacking creatures, including the token.
Emrakool says... #1
This is the Gatherer ruling for Militia's Pride .
The token enters the battlefield attacking. It doesn't trigger "when a creature attacks" triggers and is not subject to restrictions on declaring attackers.
The tokens are never declared as attackers and so do not apply when Cenn's Heir 's ability triggers.
June 16, 2013 1:03 p.m.