Angel of Serenity + Flash
Asked by muse99 12 years ago
Given the 'when-when' clauses of [Angel of Serenity] and the fact that 'no one gets priority' / 'the target is sacrificed immediately' when I cast [Flash] without paying the additional cost, does it mean I can use this combo for a triple permanent exile for 1U?
I believe the stack would look like this:Cast Flash targeting Angel of Serenity Flash resolves, making the Angel enter the battlefield and triggering the ETB-clauseAngel's ETB is placed on the stack, targeting three creatures or creature cardsThe Angel has to be sacrificed immediately because I did not play Flash's additional costAngel's sacrifice is placed on the stackAngel's sacrifice resolves, Angel goes to the graveyard, triggering the LTB-clause
Angel's LTB is placed on the stack, targeting nothingAngel's LTB resolves, fizzlingAngel's ETB resolves, exiling the targeted three creatures or creature cards immediately
Is this correct? Alternatively, the forced sacrifice could not use the stack at all but that wouldn't really change anything for this combo, right? The LTB would still resolve (and fizzle) before the ETB.
smash10101 says... #2
This is a version of a common o-ring exploit. If you get rid of the ring (or angel) before the exile trigger resolves then you can never get back the exiled cards.
tl;dr yes their gone forever
December 30, 2012 5:24 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #3
Some technical errors: A triggered ability isn't placed onto the stack until the next time a player would receive priority. In this case, events would unfold in this order:
- You cast Flash . (This spell has NO targets.)
- You resolve Flash . You put Angel of Serenity onto the battlefield, triggering its ETB ability, but you fail to pay Angel of Serenity 's mana cost reduced by 2. Angel of Serenity is sacrificed, triggering its LTB ability.
- The ETB and LTB abilities from Angel of Serenity are put onto the stack in any order you choose. Targeting choices are made at this time.
- Assuming you put the ETB ability on the stack, then the LTB ability, the LTB ability will resolve first. Nothing will be returned because the LTB ability is looking for cards that aren't there.
- The ETB ability resolves, exiling the targeted card(s).
Since there is no linked triggered ability left to return the cards exiled by the ETB ability, those cards are permanently exiled.
December 30, 2012 5:30 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
Also, sacrifices don't use the stack. Also also, Flash creates no triggered ability that would put anything on the stack to sacrifice Angel of Serenity . Everything is carried out during the resolution of Flash .
December 30, 2012 5:32 a.m.
Thank you for answers. I'm happy to see that it is indeed a triple exile for 1U. It's always good to get the technical details right (Flash having no targets, choosing the order of ETB/LTB, etc.), coming from someone who understands the game better than I do.
December 30, 2012 5:51 a.m.
smash10101 says... #6
epochalyptik is usually pretty good at the technical answers for this sort of thing. I'm usually pretty good at the tl;dr answers/there is already a ruling on on gatherer answers, and yeah, 1U for tripple exile is pretty dang good, even if it does take two cards. also technically, you do get rid of the angel before the exile trigger resolves, you also get rid of it before it gets placed on the stack, so you're way ahead of the game here.
muse99 says... #1
My apologies for not properly formatting the cards here. I suppose I cannot edit the question? Should have used some sort of list for the stack as well.
Angel of Serenity Flash
December 30, 2012 4:55 a.m.